[Vision2020] FW: In other words . . .

Tue Nov 27 09:17:31 PST 2012

w - here is my final tally:

#1 Sowell's conservative sentiment is that people wanting to keep their gross earnings are considered 'greedy' but those who want those earnings taxes are not.  Fine.
#2 Doug jokes that Sowell is probably unaware that his conservative sentiment is racist.  Fine.

#3 Tom, off in left field, sites Mathew 19:21.  Not applicable to either #1 or #2.  
#4 Tom, now off in right field, sites it's a simple matter of 'one hand washing the other' - this is not applicable to #1, #2, and #3.

Doug and his flock believe the the Bible is the inerrant word of God.  Correct, they have.  So citing Bible verses that are related to #1 or #2 might make sense. But Mathew 19:21 & 'one hand washing the other' are unrelated to #1 or #2 and are further unrelated to each other.

Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 07:07:02 -0500
From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: In other words . . .

Perhaps the point Tom was trying to make was that many of those that allege that they believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of some alleged God (like Cultmaster Douglas Wilson and his Calvinist colleague, Fred Phelps) frequently ignore those parts of the Bible that are inconsistent with their personal agendas (which frequently includes the acquisition of personal wealth as more personally important than helping the unfortunate [See Matthew 25: 31 - 46 above -- the allege key to getting into heaven]).

^Long sentence.^

At any rate it is getting more and more difficult to decipher what Wilson is trying to say as he continues his slide into obscurity even within the Reformed movement.  He appears to be trying to retain some of his wandering flock and attract new sheep to fleece by moving further toward extreme political and theological positions and by moving further and further away from the words of Christ as found in the Synoptic Gospels (part of which he alleges to be the inerrant word of some alleges God.

w.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

w - I was merely trying to make sense out of Tom's interpretations (or misinterpretations) of Doug's comment about Thomas Sowell's comment.  They are all disjointed.

FWIW - here's my scorecard:

#1 Sowell is trying to make some point about greedy hypocrisy - point not taken by me with or even without consideration to follow on comments #2, #3, #4 below.
#2 Doug states that Sowell being a black man probably is unaware that his sentiment is racist - this makes zero sense to me.  Would it not be racist if a white man had this same sentiment?

#3 Tom sites Mathew 19:21 where Jesus tells some greedy guy to give his bird-in-hand to the poor for many birds-in-Heaven - this is orthogonal #1 & #2.
#4 Tom then says it's a simple matter of 'one hand washing the other' - this is orthogonal to #1, #2, and #3.

Your comment about camel through the eye of a needle is in line with #3 which at least is consistence with something.

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:17:13 -0500
From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com

To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: In other words . . .

Scott writes in part:

  "b) Wayne's suggestion - Put this in context of Mathew 19:24 'And again
 I say unto you,it is easier for a camel to go through an eye of a 
needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God'
  c) Scott's
 viewpoint - 'Jesus seems to be saying that in order to be perfect you 
need to become destitute by giving away all of your worldly possessions 
to the poor which will result in them in temporarily not being destitute
 / perfect.'  I'm guessing there's more to this particular story that 
probably puts everything into a much more logical context."

If there is more Scott, please enlighten us by citing where we can find it.  

The issue raised here is about the relative importance of acquiring wealth versus earning salvation is very clearly focused in the the passage, and others from Matthew, the first of the Synoptic Gospels, and of which there is very wide agreement among biblical scholars that Matthew reflects the most accurate rendition of the [alleged] words of Jesus.  To understand the further context of this statement, it should be read in conjunction with Matt 25: 31 - 46 (see below).

Attempts to discredit these words by the wealthy and certain Christian sects have taken several forms:

The words are a mistranslation.
Jesus never uttered them.
They are not to be taken literally.

Etc.

A few months ago a group of conservative pundits and their wealthy backers suggested that the bible be rewritten to edit/remove that passage and many others from both Testaments that have/could be interpreted to be opposed to the accumulation of wealth or seem tobe supportive of anything that smacks of socialism.

As a nonbeliever that Jesus uttered something carries no more weight than anyone else.  Statements are knowledge claims that need to be evaluated on the basis of current knowledge and frequently call for further investigation.  It is not clear what kind of investigation relying on empirical evidence would provide a hint of the truth of the passage at issue.

[Matt 25: 31- 46]:
31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.
32All the nations will be gathered before him, and
 he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the 
sheep from the goats,
33and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 

34Then the king will say to those at his right 
hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom 
prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.”
37Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when 
was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you
 something to drink?
38And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing?
39And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?”

40And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,* you did it to me.” 

41Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You
 that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for 
the devil and his angels;
42for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, 
naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did 
not visit me.”
44Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it 
that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in 
prison, and did not take care of you?” 

45Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.”
46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’ 

-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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