[Vision2020] another litmus test

Wed Nov 21 09:38:39 PST 2012

I have not been following this thread. I might try to catch up.

I'm struck by this phrase: "the Obama I originally voted for might actually
exist."

Two theories. 1/ Obama is really more conservative than he appeared to be
when he first ran for election but he faked it to get the liberal vote.

2/ Obama is really more liberal than he appeared to be during his first
term but he played along with status quo to get the conservative vote in
the second election.

Both are morally problematic but I'm hoping for theory (2).

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:

> According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act), the
> controversial roving wiretaps sections are still in there.  They have a
> little more oversight now, but they are still there.  Can you point me to
> the section(s) that was removed?  If you can point me to such a thing, I
> would be relieved, because the Obama I originally voted for might actually
> exist.
>
> Here's an article from The Nation that came out on the day of the first
> vote.  It didn't pass that day, but did minutes before it was set to
> expire.  It paints a different picture of President Obama with relation to
> the Patriot Act.  Here is the article:
>
>
> http://www.thenation.com/blog/158381/obama-takes-wrong-turn-civil-liberties-adopting-worse-patriot-act-stance-gop
>
> Here's another article from the Huffington Post talking about how Obama
> signed into law the reauthorization on 28-Feb-2011, after Rand Paul had
> unsuccessfully tried to force a change to the bill that would "diminish the
> government's ability to monitor individual actions", because he thought the
> bill in its current form was "an abuse of privacy rights".  According to
> this article, President Obama was on the wrong side of this debate.
>
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/27/patriot-act-extension-signed-obama-autopen_n_867851.html
>
> I really wish we had had this conversation *before* the election.
>
> Paul
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> *To:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:09 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] another litmus test
>
> We are talking two versions of the Patriotic Act; the one under King
> George XLII and the one under President Obama.
>
> Yes.  President Obama did sign and approve continuation of the Patriot Act
> AFTER AUTHORITY FOR WARRANTLESS SEARCHES WAS REMOVED.
>
> You know . . . fourth amendment and all.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2012, at 7:51 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And so far not a lot of help from the courts which ought disallow such
> things on constitutional grounds.
>
> w.
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <
> sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  It's called Obama's Patriot Act now. He signed the NDAA. He's legitimized
> the Bush policies. It's a little late to be fooling ourselves about him,
> isn't it?
>
> Case of beer of choice says it passes, with a lot of blather about Safety.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:03:54 -0800
> To: godshatter at yahoo.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] another litmus test
>
> Unlike Bush's Patriot Act that gave law enforcement agencies authority to
> thoroughly search private property jus' 'cuz they're bored.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There's a bill going through the Senate that will be a good litmus test
> for our President and our democratically-controlled Senate with respect to
> civil liberties.  Senator Leahy (D) of Vermont introduced a bill before
> that Senate that required a warrant to search email.  The Justice
> Department and some law enforcement groups didn't like it because they
> oppose the warrant requirement.  So Senator Leahy reworked the bill to
> allow access to emails to 22 different governmental organizations *without*
> the need for a search warrant.
>
> This bill goes up for a vote in the Senate next week.  Let's see if we are
> still on the path to a totalitarian government or not.  Will it pass?  Will
> our President veto it if it gets to him?  Stay tuned.
>
> Here is some information on the bill:
>
>
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57552225-38/senate-bill-rewrite-lets-feds-read-your-e-mail-without-warrants/
>
> Paul
>
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>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
>
>
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