[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .

Art Deco art.deco.studios at gmail.com
Thu Nov 1 20:02:14 PDT 2012 

Maybe it's rap-speak where some words mean the opposite of what they
ordinarily mean.

w.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>wrote:

> Acidulous? You really need to make up your mind, Wayne. Everything you've
> posted with regard to my character to date would have the vision readership
> think me rather base.
>
> g
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I thoroughly resent the implication that there are more insulting,
>> acidulous posters on Vision 2020 than myself and Gary Crabtree!
>>
>> w.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Really Joe?  I think my rants are of vastly higher quality than Tom's
>>> and also more appropriate than Tom's because they're in direct response to
>>> his low quality / ridiculous ones.  If you don't see it you're probably
>>> biased in favor of Tom which I don't take issue with.
>>>
>>> -Scott
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> CC: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>>> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:48:44 -0700
>>> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there some reason that your insulting rants are better than those of
>>> others? I don't see it.
>>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Reposting - I grabbed the wrong Tom Hansen thread the first time
>>> being's that there are so many of them...
>>>
>>> Well golly gee Mr. Hansen, I'm downright shocked that things aren't as
>>> simple and as black & white as you first presented them to be and that
>>> since you jumped the gun on this and trumped it up - as you do on a lot of
>>> thing - that you now are reversing course and asking folks to contact you
>>> off list so you can further explain in order to try and save face.  And
>>> this despicable thread is what you so now nonchalantly refer to a 'venting
>>> [your] concern'???  You're pathetic.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>>> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:39:27 -0700
>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>>>
>>> Upon further off-list review and discussion, I have decided  not to
>>> pursue this matter any further.
>>>
>>> If any of you fine V-Peeps are interested in how I reached this
>>> decision, contact me off-list.
>>>
>>> In the interim, thank you for permitting me to vent my concern.
>>>
>>> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
>>>
>>> "Moscow Cares"
>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>
>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college
>>> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>
>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 4:46 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Laws are only as firm as those that enforce them.
>>>
>>> Stay tuned, V-Peeps
>>>
>>> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
>>>
>>> "Moscow Cares"
>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>
>>> Tom Hansen
>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>
>>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college
>>> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>
>>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Sounds reasonable to me Kit and I'd think this all could be handled by
>>> just having a non-accusatory (if possible) conversation with this council
>>> member and getting a better understanding about his situation (should he
>>> choose to want this publicly disclosed) and his ability to continue
>>> fulfilling his duties.  The tenor of the comments here on the Viz from the
>>> regular contributors of group thinkers is that he's not well liked and not
>>> at all trusted, so I don't really foresee the V2020 mob - fully equipped
>>> with pitchforks and torches in hand - having a cordial and honest
>>> conversation with this particular council member.
>>>
>>> I'm not a politician and nor will I ever be so it's kind of tough for me
>>> to put myself in this guy's situation to say what I'd do, but my sense is
>>> that I would simply have 'no comment' to anyone or any group who was acting
>>> hostile toward me and jumping to conclusions that I was operating in an
>>> underhanded and dishonest manner and was making statements to the effect
>>> that they wanted me to resign or be forcibly removed from my position.
>>> What other choice is there...be forthcoming and cooperative and have your
>>> admitted enemies use all that against you as they can and would do?  I
>>> think the legal requirements can easily be addressed, but would then lead
>>> to your subsequent point regarding gaming the system to meet Tom's
>>> supposedly all important 'letter of the law' - which is really only
>>> important in terms of how effective the law is to DQ this guy immediately
>>> from his position.  I'll give Tom credit that he is transparent on that end
>>> goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> > CC: thansen at moscow.com; kmmos1 at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > From: kcraine at frontier.com
>>> > To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>>> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:46:58 -0700
>>> >
>>> > I think this basic question is two fold:
>>> >
>>> > 1. Does the councilor involved met the legal requirement that he
>>> > resides in the district he represents?
>>> >
>>> > 2. Does the councilor's heart reside in the district he represents?
>>> >
>>> > In the first instance, if the councilor does not reside -- or is
>>> > gaming the system to claim he resides -- in the district he
>>> > represents, should he be in office (morally or legally) when he does
>>> > not belong to the group he claims to represent? The question is
>>> > whether we (the citizens of Moscow, Idaho) should accept being ruled
>>> > by an outsider (e.g. someone from Troy, Pullman, Spokane, New York,
>>> > Mars) who will not suffer the consequences of his decisions.
>>> >
>>> > In the second instance, should a person who does not have an interest
>>> > in the future of a community he represents (because he knows he will
>>> > not live with the consequences of his decisions) have a moral
>>> > obligation to step down from an office he holds?
>>> >
>>> > City councilors determine the policies which run this city. Their
>>> > decisions impact every member of the population. Regardless of of the
>>> > legal status of a councilor's claimed residence, the question is
>>> > whether that councilor is willing to live with the consequences of
>>> his/
>>> > her decisions (i.e, will they be residing in Moscow after their
>>> > term?). The community has the right to ask why a suspected out-of-
>>> > community councilor ran for the position AND why the councilor should
>>> > continue to be retained in the position. The councilor has an
>>> > obligation to answer -- AND to justify his continued membership of the
>>> > council in terms of the long-term benefits of a community he had left.
>>> >
>>> > Kit Craine
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:58 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I'd hope that the city council members would ignore most of your
>>> > > numerous petty requests Tom, but let me know how this all works out
>>> > > for you. If this guy isn't carrying out his duties (e.g. was not
>>> > > involved in any way) then that'd be the reason to jettison him. If
>>> > > this residency thing is a huge fricken' big deal and anyone in the
>>> > > powers that be gives one wit I'm sure there can be some monumental
>>> > > waste of time and effort put forth to meet the letter of the law,
>>> > > but what'd be the point since you'd just go snooping for some other
>>> > > minor infraction to yell 'throw the bum out'. What a joke.
>>> > >
>>> > > From: thansen at moscow.com
>>> > > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 04:19:31 -0700
>>> > > To: kmmos1 at frontier.com
>>> > > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>>> > >
>>> > > Bottom line: The law is the law; the spirit of the law being that
>>> > > our governing city council WILL NOT be comprised of nonresidents.
>>> > >
>>> > > Reasoning for noncompliance: There was no explanation given as to
>>> > > why the city code will not be enforced.
>>> > >
>>> > > Options: As residents, subject to city code enforcement, we can
>>> > > either request, in a letter to the city council and Mayor Chaney,
>>> > > that action be taken or we can join Mr. Dredge in burying our heads
>>> > > in the proverbial sand.
>>> > >
>>> > > I have NEVER been known to sit on my hands.
>>> > >
>>> > > As one quote goes . . .
>>> > >
>>> > > "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!"
>>> > >
>>> > > This IS important, Moscow, because . . .
>>> > >
>>> > > "Moscow Cares"
>>> > > http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>> > >
>>> > > Tom Hansen
>>> > > Moscow, Idaho
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:34 AM, Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > On 10/30/2012 11:12 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>>> > > It's a non-issue.
>>> > >
>>> > > One of the essential characteristics of municipal government is that
>>> > > it is relatively local, i.e., close to those who are governed and,
>>> > > ipso facto, those who are governed are close to those who govern
>>> > > them. If one of those governing changes one of his characteristics
>>> > > from local to non-local, that change creates an incongruity with
>>> > > local government characteristics which may be resolved by
>>> > > resignation from office by the incongruous person.
>>> > >
>>> > > It's tantamount to claiming Obama is ineligible to be president
>>> > > because many believe he was born in Kenya.
>>> > >
>>> > > That is maldirective nonsense. Many people believe incorrect
>>> > > information to their individual and our collective detriment. The
>>> > > fact of their belief does not justify it, nor does it serve as a
>>> > > basis for argument that because it is true that anything else is
>>> true.
>>> > >
>>> > > If this Tim Brown character is not eligible to be sitting on the
>>> > > council, then someone who cares about this should follow the
>>> > > processes in place to remove / replace him.
>>> > >
>>> > > Tim Brown initiated the processes necessary to place himself into
>>> > > membership of the Moscow City Council at a time when his
>>> > > characteristics were consonant with such membership. Apparently he
>>> > > has changed those characteristics, so he should initiate the
>>> > > processes necessary to remove himself from membership of the Moscow
>>> > > City Council.
>>> > >
>>> > > That'd just be far too logical and it won't happen so this flap is
>>> > > much ado about nothing.
>>> > >
>>> > > Asking other people to expend the energy to collectively act to do
>>> > > what the incumbent could, and should, do individually with less
>>> > > energy, and more grace, is neither "logical" nor efficient, and
>>> > > represents a level of counterproductivity that is counterintuitive
>>> > > to better local government.
>>> > >
>>> > > "Much ado about nothing" serves better as a Shakespearean play title
>>> > > than as a description of this discussion.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Ken
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > >
>>> > > ======================================================= List
>>> > > services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> =======================================================
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> >
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>> ======================================================= List services
>>> made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the
>>> Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<Vision2020 at moscow.com>=======================================================
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>
>


-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com
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