[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .

Art Deco art.deco.studios at gmail.com
Thu Nov 1 11:10:27 PDT 2012 

I thoroughly resent the implication that there are more insulting,
acidulous posters on Vision 2020 than myself and Gary Crabtree!

w.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Really Joe?  I think my rants are of vastly higher quality than Tom's and
> also more appropriate than Tom's because they're in direct response to his
> low quality / ridiculous ones.  If you don't see it you're probably biased
> in favor of Tom which I don't take issue with.
>
> -Scott
>
> ------------------------------
> CC: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:48:44 -0700
> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>
>
> Is there some reason that your insulting rants are better than those of
> others? I don't see it.
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Reposting - I grabbed the wrong Tom Hansen thread the first time being's
> that there are so many of them...
>
> Well golly gee Mr. Hansen, I'm downright shocked that things aren't as
> simple and as black & white as you first presented them to be and that
> since you jumped the gun on this and trumped it up - as you do on a lot of
> thing - that you now are reversing course and asking folks to contact you
> off list so you can further explain in order to try and save face.  And
> this despicable thread is what you so now nonchalantly refer to a 'venting
> [your] concern'???  You're pathetic.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:39:27 -0700
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
>
> Upon further off-list review and discussion, I have decided  not to pursue
> this matter any further.
>
> If any of you fine V-Peeps are interested in how I reached this decision,
> contact me off-list.
>
> In the interim, thank you for permitting me to vent my concern.
>
> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 4:46 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Laws are only as firm as those that enforce them.
>
> Stay tuned, V-Peeps
>
> Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college
> students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Sounds reasonable to me Kit and I'd think this all could be handled by
> just having a non-accusatory (if possible) conversation with this council
> member and getting a better understanding about his situation (should he
> choose to want this publicly disclosed) and his ability to continue
> fulfilling his duties.  The tenor of the comments here on the Viz from the
> regular contributors of group thinkers is that he's not well liked and not
> at all trusted, so I don't really foresee the V2020 mob - fully equipped
> with pitchforks and torches in hand - having a cordial and honest
> conversation with this particular council member.
>
> I'm not a politician and nor will I ever be so it's kind of tough for me
> to put myself in this guy's situation to say what I'd do, but my sense is
> that I would simply have 'no comment' to anyone or any group who was acting
> hostile toward me and jumping to conclusions that I was operating in an
> underhanded and dishonest manner and was making statements to the effect
> that they wanted me to resign or be forcibly removed from my position.
> What other choice is there...be forthcoming and cooperative and have your
> admitted enemies use all that against you as they can and would do?  I
> think the legal requirements can easily be addressed, but would then lead
> to your subsequent point regarding gaming the system to meet Tom's
> supposedly all important 'letter of the law' - which is really only
> important in terms of how effective the law is to DQ this guy immediately
> from his position.  I'll give Tom credit that he is transparent on that end
> goal.
>
>
> > CC: thansen at moscow.com; kmmos1 at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> > From: kcraine at frontier.com
> > To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
> > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 21:46:58 -0700
> >
> > I think this basic question is two fold:
> >
> > 1. Does the councilor involved met the legal requirement that he
> > resides in the district he represents?
> >
> > 2. Does the councilor's heart reside in the district he represents?
> >
> > In the first instance, if the councilor does not reside -- or is
> > gaming the system to claim he resides -- in the district he
> > represents, should he be in office (morally or legally) when he does
> > not belong to the group he claims to represent? The question is
> > whether we (the citizens of Moscow, Idaho) should accept being ruled
> > by an outsider (e.g. someone from Troy, Pullman, Spokane, New York,
> > Mars) who will not suffer the consequences of his decisions.
> >
> > In the second instance, should a person who does not have an interest
> > in the future of a community he represents (because he knows he will
> > not live with the consequences of his decisions) have a moral
> > obligation to step down from an office he holds?
> >
> > City councilors determine the policies which run this city. Their
> > decisions impact every member of the population. Regardless of of the
> > legal status of a councilor's claimed residence, the question is
> > whether that councilor is willing to live with the consequences of his/
> > her decisions (i.e, will they be residing in Moscow after their
> > term?). The community has the right to ask why a suspected out-of-
> > community councilor ran for the position AND why the councilor should
> > continue to be retained in the position. The councilor has an
> > obligation to answer -- AND to justify his continued membership of the
> > council in terms of the long-term benefits of a community he had left.
> >
> > Kit Craine
> >
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:58 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> >
> > > I'd hope that the city council members would ignore most of your
> > > numerous petty requests Tom, but let me know how this all works out
> > > for you. If this guy isn't carrying out his duties (e.g. was not
> > > involved in any way) then that'd be the reason to jettison him. If
> > > this residency thing is a huge fricken' big deal and anyone in the
> > > powers that be gives one wit I'm sure there can be some monumental
> > > waste of time and effort put forth to meet the letter of the law,
> > > but what'd be the point since you'd just go snooping for some other
> > > minor infraction to yell 'throw the bum out'. What a joke.
> > >
> > > From: thansen at moscow.com
> > > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 04:19:31 -0700
> > > To: kmmos1 at frontier.com
> > > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .
> > >
> > > Bottom line: The law is the law; the spirit of the law being that
> > > our governing city council WILL NOT be comprised of nonresidents.
> > >
> > > Reasoning for noncompliance: There was no explanation given as to
> > > why the city code will not be enforced.
> > >
> > > Options: As residents, subject to city code enforcement, we can
> > > either request, in a letter to the city council and Mayor Chaney,
> > > that action be taken or we can join Mr. Dredge in burying our heads
> > > in the proverbial sand.
> > >
> > > I have NEVER been known to sit on my hands.
> > >
> > > As one quote goes . . .
> > >
> > > "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!"
> > >
> > > This IS important, Moscow, because . . .
> > >
> > > "Moscow Cares"
> > > http://www.MoscowCares.com
> > >
> > > Tom Hansen
> > > Moscow, Idaho
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:34 AM, Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > On 10/30/2012 11:12 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> > > It's a non-issue.
> > >
> > > One of the essential characteristics of municipal government is that
> > > it is relatively local, i.e., close to those who are governed and,
> > > ipso facto, those who are governed are close to those who govern
> > > them. If one of those governing changes one of his characteristics
> > > from local to non-local, that change creates an incongruity with
> > > local government characteristics which may be resolved by
> > > resignation from office by the incongruous person.
> > >
> > > It's tantamount to claiming Obama is ineligible to be president
> > > because many believe he was born in Kenya.
> > >
> > > That is maldirective nonsense. Many people believe incorrect
> > > information to their individual and our collective detriment. The
> > > fact of their belief does not justify it, nor does it serve as a
> > > basis for argument that because it is true that anything else is true.
> > >
> > > If this Tim Brown character is not eligible to be sitting on the
> > > council, then someone who cares about this should follow the
> > > processes in place to remove / replace him.
> > >
> > > Tim Brown initiated the processes necessary to place himself into
> > > membership of the Moscow City Council at a time when his
> > > characteristics were consonant with such membership. Apparently he
> > > has changed those characteristics, so he should initiate the
> > > processes necessary to remove himself from membership of the Moscow
> > > City Council.
> > >
> > > That'd just be far too logical and it won't happen so this flap is
> > > much ado about nothing.
> > >
> > > Asking other people to expend the energy to collectively act to do
> > > what the incumbent could, and should, do individually with less
> > > energy, and more grace, is neither "logical" nor efficient, and
> > > represents a level of counterproductivity that is counterintuitive
> > > to better local government.
> > >
> > > "Much ado about nothing" serves better as a Shakespearean play title
> > > than as a description of this discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > =======================================================
> > >
> > > ======================================================= List
> > > services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
> > > =======================================================
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > =======================================================
> >
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
> ======================================================= List services made
> available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
> since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<Vision2020 at moscow.com>=======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>



-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20121101/4de7c854/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Vision2020 mailing list