[Vision2020] Something you need to know

Thu May 3 11:08:45 PDT 2012

I am glad that Tri-care has taken care of your needs. My wife was in the hospital in 2003. We are still paying her share of the Gritman bill.
Roger
-----Original message-----
From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 11:02:38 -0700
To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Something you need to know

> 
> 
> My wife spent five weeks in the ICU of Sacred Heart in Spokane and seven weeks in Northern Idaho Advanced Care Hospital (NIACH) in Post Falls.  The total billed amount for those three months exceeded $1.2 million.  My financial obligation amounted to less than .1% (one-tenth of one percent) of the billed amount.
> 
> Further, since the billed amount far exceeds the catastrophic cap of $5,000 annually, prescriptions until the end of the fiscal year (September 30th) are at no cost (pronounced "free").
> 
> Not bad for a government-run health insurance program, huh?
> 
> Thank you, Tri-Care.
> 
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
> 
> - Unknown
> 
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2012, at 10:42, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> 
> > I will respond after each of your statements
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 03:06:59 -0700
> > To: lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com, Rosemary Huskey donaldrose at cpcinternet.com, 'Tom Hansen' thansen at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Something you need to know
> > 
> >> Roger,
> >>  
> >> Heath care related companies have very limited competition with each other. And competition is not the only determining factor a consumer of a good or service must pay in order get the product-- especially with services that are in high demand, in very limited supply, and has little market elasticity, such as oil, food and health care, you need it and have to pay regardless of price. 
> >> Roger- I was talking about insurance, not health care providers. 
> >> Your solution of tax credits, or free money for all, isn't a solutionit is a smoke and mirrors parlor trick. It does nothing to reduce the rising costs of health care in the United States or to deal with the limited availability of health care professionals for a population with increasing medical care needs.  
> >>  Roger- It would be expensive, but less costly than direct government dictated insurance for everyone and there would be less freedom.
> >> Where do you think these tax credits are going to come from? Higher taxes? Increased debt? Or inflation through printing more money? You're not reducing the costs, just moving them around. 
> >>  Roger- See above.
> >> As far as health provisions covered by insurance companies, allowing providers to provide or not provide services based on religious ideology is fraught with problems that could cost people's lives. Patients have the right to refuse medical care based on their religious beliefs. Health care providers don't have the right to deny needed health care based on their beliefs.
> >>  If the individual can chose their insurance coverage, this would not be a problem.
> >> I do think however, an individual care provider, such as a doctor, or nurse, or pharmacist, should be able to defer to another care provider equally competent if they are available for their religious or other personal reasons 
> >> Roger- I agree with you here.
> >> You must also consider that many people are not sure what kind of insurance they need, how much, and what is a fair rate. You need not go any further than an electronics or appliance store to have someone shoving and pressuring you to buy insurance on something that is nothing more than a worthless piece of paper that costs a lot of money. Health insurance companies do the same to people. 
> >> Roger- I think that people have a better handle on there needs than omnipotent govenment.
> >> Donovan Arnold
> >>  
> >> 
> >> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> >> To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoocom>; Rosemary Huskey <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>; 'Tom Hansen' <thansen at moscow.com> 
> >> Cc: 'Moscow Vision2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 4:25 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Something you need to know
> >> 
> >> If insurance companies have to compete with one another for the business, the price should come down. People should be able to buy insurance from any where.
> >> Roger
> >> -----Original message-----
> >> From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> >> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 13:17:35 -0700
> >> To: Rosemary Huskey donaldrose at cpcinternet.com, 'Tom Hansen' thansen at moscow.com,  'lfalen' lfalen at turbonet.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Something you need to know
> >> 
> >>>  
> >>> Roger,
> >>>  
> >>> Tax credits wouldn't work because insurance companies and medical providers would just raise their rates the same as the tax credit. They are for-profit, not for-charity. 
> >>>  
> >>> There is only one way to save our health care. We do to the giant medical corporations jobs that they did to the working classes jobs, ship them overseas. Why should the US taxpayer pay $200 for a prescription and $100,000 in medical care in the United States when we can ship them overseas and get the same care for a fraction of the cost. If we let people retire in luxury at 65 in overseas retirement communities, enough people would go to where the increased taxpayer costs of social security and medicare would disappear. 
> >>> 
> >>> Yes, that means some mega millionaires and a couple billionaires would lose their jobs, but it didn't bother us when millions lost their good paying blue collar jobs overseas, so it shouldn't bother us now.
> >>>  
> >>> Did you know in the Philippines, you can hire a private nurse, same skills and qualifications as US nurses, for just $3-$5 an hour. Compare that to the cost of a nurse in the US at $50 to $100 an hour. 
> >>>  
> >>> Donovan Arnold
> >>> 
> >>> From: Rosemary Huskey <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
> >>> To: 'Tom Hansen' <thansen at moscow.com>; 'lfalen' <lfalen at turbonet.com> 
> >>> Cc: 'Moscow Vision2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 1:28 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Something you need to know
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Let’s focus please.  Roger, how do you propose indigent patients gather enough resources to buy their meds in the first place let alone benefit from a tax credit? I am sick unto death hearing about tax credits as a solution to anything..  How ‘bout single payer (much like the Medicare and Tricare System which works very well) and a flat payment (according to income level) to be assessed by all working adults.  And, frankly, I would be delighted if those making over  250K per year (including investment earnings) would pay 10 times more for the privilege of medical care than those making $25,000.
> >>> Rose Huskey
> >>>  
> >>> From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 12:14 PM
> >>> To: lfalen
> >>> Cc: Moscow Vision2020
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Something you need to know
> >>>  
> >>> Roger Falen suggests:
> >>>  
> >>> "Here is a plan that should satisfy everyone and should give everyone health care insurance. Give a tax credit to everyone to buy their own insurance."
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Ah, yes . . . the infamous coupon system in the guise of a tax credit.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Just how big of a tax credit do you suggest, Mr. Falen?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >>>  
> >>> Tom Hansen
> >>> Moscow, Idaho
> >>>  
> >>> "If not us, who?
> >>> If not now, when?"
> >>>  
> >>> - Unknown
> >>>  
> >>>  
> >>> 
> >>> On May 2, 2012, at 12:03, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >>> Here is a plan that should satisfy everyone and should give everyone health care insurance. Give a tax credit to everyone to buy their own insurance 
> >>> =======================================================
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> >>> =======================================================
> >>> 
> >> 
> 
>