[Vision2020] Same sex marriage

[Scott Dredge]

There is presently no litmus for fertitlity / procreation to dictate marriage eligibility.  It's a moot point.  Science will solve this anyway in the brave new world where same sex couples will be able to create biological offspring from their mixed DNA.  This article is a bit dated:

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/2004/04/23/fatherless.php

-Scott

Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2012 23:32:50 -0700
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
To: kmmos1 at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage


Ken attempts to defend his argument with;
 

"Two people of the same sex physically cannot procreate. In order for such a couple to have children, assistance of a person outside of the marriage is required. Sexual relations by married persons with someone other than a spouse is adultery, so by legal definition, same-sex couples do not have permission to procreate within the standard definition of marital fidelity, which presumes opposite-sex couples for reproductive purposes."
 
It is immaterial if a same gendered couple adds children to the world with assistance from an opposite gendered person outside the marriage. They have still added children to the world and it does nothing to strengthen your argument that it would result in reducing the number of children in an overpopulated world.
Surrogating for a couple, in the eyes of the law, and to anyone with a reasonable sense of fairness, is not the same thing as adultery (betraying a relationship), especially when it is a medical necessity.
 
And continues his argument with;
 
"Some of the oldest literature in any human canon deals with marriage mores and social responses to them. For example, in the Western canon, the Greek Odyssey considers the relationship between the returning King Odysseus and his wife Penelope. The nature of the relationships between men and women, legally, socially, and otherwise, have changed since those days and conditions, and likely will continue to change as humanity faces, or refuses to face, continuing changes in our physical and social environments. To the extent these messages encourage intelligent open-mindedness while searching for workable contemporary solutions, they may have some value."
 
I am not debating the historical accuracy that marriage in the past was not done for purposes other than for love by two free consenting adults. Evidence to the contrary is apparent even today. My point, is that no person should be forced to marry another person for reasons other than for love of that person. Both persons should be taking the vow free from any other considerations, economic and social. Swearing to "love, honor, and cherish" someone until the end of your life is perjury, bearing false witness, and cruel to that person if you really don't mean it at the time you say it. 
 
Your argument, that people should marry someone of the same gender to reduce the human population, boils down to saying everyone should engage only in gay sex for the purposes of reducing pregnancies. Which is, shy of any other respectable world, silly.
 
The only possible strength to your argument might be, that some people might get married to a same gendered friend for the tax and medical benefits. But again, that would be morally wrong to do that, in my personal opinion. 
 
Donovan J. Arnold






From: Kenneth Marcy <kmmos1 at frontier.com>
To: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Same sex marriage




On 7/15/2012 8:03 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:



Ken writes, 

"Marriage has to do with, among other things, with whether people have social permission to procreate. Same-sex marriage implies such permission is not granted to individuals within that relationship."
 
 
No it doesn't. People in same sex marriage have children, and are allowed to have children.
Two people of the same sex physically cannot procreate. In order for such a couple to have children, assistance of a person outside of the marriage is required. Sexual relations by married persons with someone other than a spouse is adultery, so by legal definition, same-sex couples do not have permission to procreate within the standard definition of marital fidelity, which presumes opposite-sex couples for reproductive purposes.

Notwithstanding the truth of the nitpicking legalese, the fact of the matter is that some same-sex couples have legitimate children from various sources. Some were adopted, some came to a marriage from one spouse's previous relationship. Others were conceived from sperm donors, and yet others the old-fashioned way with previously
 arranged permission of both spouses to one another.

The point is that special procreative permissions are needed by same-sex couples that are not needed by opposite-sex couples to avoid adulterous entanglements. Same-sex spouses may be happy to grant such permissions, but a highly overpopulated society working to curb population growth may not agree by default. Whether or not that is fair, equitable, and just vis-à-vis heterosexual couples is an ongoing discussion topic.




And finishes with,
 
"How romantic. And in many cases, how unrealistic. Over the centuries marriage has more often been an arrangement implementing social practicalities rather than love. Given the intractable societal burdens of overpopulation, societal concerns may well trump personal preferences for multiple reasons -- food sharing, housing sharing, and many facets of more efficient societal use of many limited resources."
 <[snip]>

 
Marriage should be a statement that two people want to be together, for no other reason than they want to be, not because of social engineering.
Some of the oldest literature in any human canon deals with marriage mores and social responses to them. For example, in the Western canon, the Greek Odyssey considers the relationship between the returning King Odysseus and his wife Penelope. The nature of the relationships between men and women, legally, socially, and otherwise, have changed since those days and conditions, and likely will continue to change as humanity faces, or refuses to face, continuing changes in our physical and social environments. To the extent these messages encourage intelligent open-mindedness while searching for workable contemporary solutions, they may have some
 value.


Ken

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