[Vision2020] So, This is What Being a Libertarian is All About . . .

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 2 16:42:13 PDT 2012 

If the government is given the authority to keep a woman from having an abortion, it will also have the authority to force a woman to have an abortion. 
 
 
Donovan J. Arnold

From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> 
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So, This is What Being a Libertarian is All About . . .

I agree with you 100%, Mr. Dredge.

It is strictly a matter of choice . . . the woman's choice.




Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"

- Unknown



On Jul 2, 2012, at 14:49, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Kris wrote: 'So only half the population gets civil liberties?'
> 
> This is correct considering women comprise roughly half the population and they are the sole decision makers for terminating their pregnancies or not. No woman should ever be forced to terminate a pregnancy against her will (in my humble opinion).
> 
> -Scott
> 
> 
>> From: kfreitag at roadrunner.com
>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:18:07 -0700
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So,    This is What Being a Libertarian is All About . . .
>> 
>> "Yes, yes, I know, except that they want to take away
>> the freedom of women to have the choice to have an abortion, blah, blah,
>> blah. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make, this one issue is
>> gutting them right now."
>> 
>> AS IT SHOULD. It's only the right of any woman to her own body. BLAH ,BLAH 
>> etc.
>> 
>> So only half the population gets civil liberties?
>> Kris
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 9:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] So, This is What Being a Libertarian is All About 
>> . . .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rand and Ron Paul *are* libertarians. They just have their panties in a
>> twist about this one particular issue. I wish they'd learn to leave it
>> alone while they are campaigning, though, because it opens them up to
>> criticisms like this one that ignore their other views that actually
>> *do* support small government and the protection of civil liberties.
>> There isn't another Presidential contender, for example, that does more
>> than pay lip-service to "small government" other than Ron Paul. Every
>> other candidate out there wants to expand Executive powers, Paul wants
>> to reduce government down to the bare minimum allowed by the
>> Constitution. No other candidate is a bigger protector of civil
>> liberties, either. Yes, yes, I know, except that they want to take away
>> the freedom of women to have the choice to have an abortion, blah, blah,
>> blah. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make, this one issue is
>> gutting them right now.
>> 
>> The Pauls have just fallen into the same trap that most everyone else
>> has fallen into; they have become distracted by an emotional issue that
>> is a political smoke grenade. If they would have set this issue aside,
>> no matter how important they feel it is, and stuck to their other issues
>> they would be much better off. As it is, they have fallen into a trap
>> in the same way that a bunch of ravenous dogs can be distracted by
>> tossing some red meat at them. Trust me, the people throwing meat at the
>> dogs know exactly what they are doing, and the dogs fall for it every time.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> On 06/27/2012 08:00 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>> Personally I'm not incensed. But the guy is NOT a libertarian. Someone
>>> who is fiscally conservative yet doesn't mind government interference
>>> in our private lives is not anti-government. He actually believes that
>>> the government can help solve problems, right?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:54 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>> Tom
>>>> I doubt that you would be as incensed about similar actions done by 
>>>> liberals. They do it all the time. I don't like it regardless of who 
>>>> does it. I would favor a law that says only amendments that are germane 
>>>> to the main bill can be added.
>>>> Roger
>>>> -----Original message-----
>>>> From: Tom Hansen thansen at moscow.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:07:49 -0700
>>>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] So, This is What Being a Libertarian is All About . 
>>>> . .
>>>> 
>>>>> Is this what the Libertarians' battle cry of "Less Government!" is all 
>>>>> about?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Courtesy of Outside the Beltway at:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rand-paul-trying-to-add-personhood-amendment-to-flood-insurance-bill/
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rand Paul Trying To Add “Personhood” Amendment To Flood Insurance Bill
>>>>> 
>>>>> WASHINGTON — Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) moved this week to hold a 
>>>>> noncontroversial flood insurance bill hostage until the Senate agrees 
>>>>> that life begins at fertilization.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The bill, which would financially boost the National Flood Insurance 
>>>>> Program on the cusp of hurricane season, had been expected to pass 
>>>>> easily in the Senate. But since Paul on Monday offered an unrelated 
>>>>> “fetal personhood” amendment, which would give legal protections to 
>>>>> fetuses from the moment of fertilization, Senate Majority Leader Harry 
>>>>> Reid (D-Nev.) is threatening to halt progress on the legislation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> “I’m told last night that one of our Republican senators wants to offer 
>>>>> an amendment — listen to this one — wants to offer an amendment on when 
>>>>> life begins,” Reid said on the Senate floor Tuesday. “I am not going to 
>>>>> put up with that on flood insurance. I can be condemned by outside 
>>>>> sources; my friends can say, ‘Let them have a vote on it.’ There will 
>>>>> not be a vote on that on flood insurance We’ll either do flood insurance 
>>>>> with the amendments that deal with flood insurance, or we won’t do it. 
>>>>> We’ll have an extension”
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reid has allowed Republicans to attach unrelated amendments to other 
>>>>> important bills in the past few months. Most notably, he let the Senate 
>>>>> vote on a contraception-related amendment, proposed by Sen. Roy Blunt 
>>>>> (R-Mo.), to a transportation bill. But Reid called Paul’s measure 
>>>>> “ridiculous” and “outlandish,” and asked Republicans to deal with him on 
>>>>> “their side of the aisle.”
>>>>> Paul told reporters on Tuesday afternoon that he is “just trying to get 
>>>>> a vote for people who elected me.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> “Can you believe that they’re exasperated with me?” he said, responding 
>>>>> to criticism of his attempt to attach the unrelated amendment. “If [Reid 
>>>>> will] give me a freestanding vote, I’ll take a freestanding vote any 
>>>>> time.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-NV) response . . .
>>>>> 
>>>>> “I am not going to put up with that on flood insurance. I can be 
>>>>> condemned by outside sources — my friends can say, ‘Let them have a vote 
>>>>> on it.’ There will not be a vote on that on flood insurance. We’ll 
>>>>> either do flood insurance with the amendments that deal with flood 
>>>>> insurance, or we won’t do it. We’ll have an extension.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdw36CZSbeI
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> 
>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>> 
>>>>> "If not us, who?
>>>>> If not now, when?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Unknown
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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