[Vision2020] How things change

Tue Jan 31 07:29:40 PST 2012

Donovan,

I agree that no President has this power, nor should one exercise such power. I don't know how one stops the government in court. Here's  link to one story about the al-Awlaki suit:

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-25/politics/al.awlaki.lawsuit_1_awlaki-qaeda-yemeni-american?_s=PM:POLITICS

If the government says 'It's a state secret, you can't make us say anything,' and the court goes along with it instead of calling BS, then it probably doesn't matter if you bring the suit yourself. 

But we're sitting here, buying the government's 'trust us' line. Why should we believe this 'power' will only be used to kill citizens outside the country?

Sunil

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:21:34 -0800
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How things change
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Sunil, Can someone sue to have their name removed by a lawyer and not be there themselves? Or do they have to be in court?  Certainly, there must be some legitimate way to deal with abuse of power?  I don't think the issue is who is President, it is what are the limits of power on a President regarding the elimination and limitation of a person's individual rights against that of national security interests? I would think that a President would be limited to following international treaty laws for foreigners and US laws for US citizens unless Congress declares war.  Donovan Arnold
        From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
 To: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 9:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How things change

Donovan,

He doesn't legally have the power, and yet how does one challenge it? Awlaki's father filed a suit to take his son's name off the 'kill list, or' but that was dismissed: the judge said his father didn't have standing to sue for his son. Of course when the state is trying to kill you without charging you with a crime, how can you even show up to sue for yourself? We killed his 16 year-old son too, for good measure I guess.

Or maybe we could say 'No, you can't do this,' if only out of self-interest. If Obama is allowed to do this, the person one did not support will be able to do it too. Newt? Mitt? Michelle Bachman? No question they will order these killings too. But as long as this only happens to the Other, especially the Other with the funny name (self-interest again?), who cares? Certainly not enough of us.

Sunil

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:02:40 -0800
From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How things change
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Sunil, How can the President have these powers over US citizens without Congress declaring war? Abraham Lincoln  and FDR were the only individuals that had this kind of power on US soil that I am aware of because of war. Doesn't all authority given to the government, in theory anyway, have to come from the people or Constitution?  Donovan
 Arnold
        From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
 To: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:45 PM
 Subject: [Vision2020] How things change

>From Glenn Greenwald today:

"But this is one of the towering, unanswerable hypocrisies of Democratic Party politics. The very same faction that pretended for years to be so distraught by Bush’s mere eavesdropping on and detention of accused Terrorists without due process is now perfectly content to have their own President kill
 accused Terrorists without due process, even when those targeted are 
their fellow citizens: obviously a far more Draconian and permanent 
abuse than eavesdropping or detention (identically, the very same 
faction that objected to Bush’s radical whole-world-is-a-Battlefield theory
 now must embrace exactly that theory to justify how someone riding in a
 car, or sitting at home, or sleeping in his bed, in a country where no 
war is declared, is “on a battlefield” at the time the CIA ends his 
life)."

Entire column:

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/30/leon_panettas_explicitly_authoritarian_decree/singleton/

Sunil

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