[Vision2020] More Proof Preventative Health Care Saves

Jay Borden jborden at datawedge.com
Wed Jan 18 13:47:51 PST 2012


I have had my fair share of doctors and hospitals... with myself, my
wife, and my 9-year old son (who looooooves to ride his dirt bike).

 

Diagnostic tests are ADVISED by doctors, it's the public that blindly
follows their advice and assumes that it's an ORDER.  Short of your
being unable to voice your own opinion (or have someone with legal
authority to do so) a doctor can't ORDER you to do anything.

 

Yes, you can, in fact, order your own MRI.  (Feel free to do it
yourself... that's what we did with my wife's shoulder injury last
year... we got all the images from the MRI burned to a CD that we were
able to take with us until we found a specialist we liked).   The FACT
is, society is dealing with doctors who THINK they have the authority to
"ORDER" something, or that tests can't get done unless they accompany a
doctor's ORDER ... but when you cut through the crap, you are left with
a series of businesses that trades consultations and services for
currency.  

 

Doctors sometimes (well, often) HATE being questioned.  I've walked out
of a doctor's office more than once, unsatisfied with either the answer
(or lack of their willingness to explain), and found another doctor.
(From my personal experience... Texas was the worst in this regard).

 

Yes, I have, in fact, had the experience of a doctor "ordering" an MRI
(on my knee)... and I have, in fact, asked the doctor if it was truly
necessary, and what the likelihood that a simple X-Ray would be able to
pinpoint the problem.    (I opted for the X-ray, I got lucky, and the
problem was found...).

 

Yes, I do, in fact, have a "high-deductible" on my insurance policy.  I
choose to pay for my own medical, dental, prescriptions, etc... and I
choose to use insurance as a safety net, not a blanket.  I take
advantage of my HSA, and I make sure that I have sufficient capital
stashed to pull the trigger on my high-deductible (should I or our
family need it)... as a result I choose to scrutinize the costs and
procedures with everything below that line and pay for it out of my own
pocket. 

 

I make sure I am prepared...  I make sure my family is taken care of...
yet when I look around society I see an increasing number of
'grasshoppers' and a decreasing number of 'ants'...  and more
grasshoppers pushing agendas and legislation punishing the ants for
being well-prepared and informed.

 

 

 

 

Jay

 

 

 

 

 

From: keely emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:46 PM
To: Jay Borden; donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] More Proof Preventative Health Care Saves

 

I think, Jay, we have all seen a multitude of examples of "people making
BAD decisions" in the healthcare climate we endure these days in the
U.S.  Most of the time, those decisions are made by insurers, whose
approach to market-driven, business-model healthcare counts every single
cost except for the very real personal costs inflicted on sick people.

I don't see the truth in your example that using "other people's money"
in healthcare distribution is like you and me going to a restaurant and
my ordering not the lobster I would've if I'd known you were paying and,
lacking that knowledge, ordering only the soup-and-sandwich combo.  Bad
manners in social interactions are not the same thing as denying people
access to preventative care that not only spends healthcare dollars
wisely in prevention and early diagnosis, with better treatment
outcomes, as well as empowers people to manage their own personal
health.  You seem to believe that the indignation I might feel that
someone "orders up" if I'm paying is at all analogous to having access
to and making use of comprehensive preventative, diagnostic, and
treatment options that by every standard improves the life -- and life
expectancy -- of the patient.  It isn't.

I cannot imagine a scenario under which people "pig out" by availing
themselves of "other people's money" -- which, given the tax-supported
nature of government involvement in healthcare is actually THEIR own
money -- to pay for their scooping up each and every test possible.
You're aware, I know, that most diagnostic tests are ordered by doctors
themselves, not by patients.  In other words, while I might call and
schedule my own mammogram (at my doctor's recommendation), I can't just
wake up one morning and decide that an MRI would be a fun way to pass
the day.  No, those tests are ordered by physicians.  I suspect you
haven't had the experience of having your doctor suggest that you have
an MRI to pinpoint the source of your pain, or a complete blood panel to
rule out leukemia, only to have to tell her/him that you can't afford it
-- either because you're uninsured, or because you carry a $10,000
family deductible and can't come up with your share of the cost.
Further, it's hard for me to imagine that you actually envision a world
in which "too much" medical care is a bad thing, unless, of course,
you're in the camp that believes that Grandma really ought to have to
have her case reviewed by managers disinclined to spend money on an
80-year-old.  If you're at all "pro-life," you're not.  But you tell me.

Finally, I think that you and I would measure the moral strength of a
country in different ways.  You seem to think that the market-driven,
frankly discriminatory stinginess now evident in the way this nation
deals with healthcare is not only a good business model, but an
honorable way to have its citizens deal with each other -- and not as
equals or as co-citizens, but in a hierarchical model that ensures that
those in power, those who are not doctors, those who control the
pursestrings and thus make life-and-death decisions that result in
death, not life, are entitled to inflict a business model on people who
are only "customers," disposable and easily forgotten.  I disagree.  The
measure of this nation's moral character is when the gap between the
have's and the have-not's, while evident in other areas, should never
result in the acceptability of early death and prolonged suffering
because it makes business sense to people whose healthcare needs are
immune to the "silent hand of the market."  That, I'd never apologize
for.  I'm just amazed that you and others would defend it.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com



________________________________

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 11:35:41 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] More Proof Preventative Health Care Saves

It sounds great... the math might be right, but I believe the human
nature component is wrong... human nature changes when dealing with
"other people's money".  

 

("Oh, if I had known you were paying for dinner, I would have ordered
something more expensive...")

 

Putting the word "preventative" in the name doesn't change the way
humans would react to and use it.  

 

If we had universal health care, it means that individuals would never
see the benefit of money saved... they would simply be given a "blank
check" in terms of their health care and how they care for themselves...
and therefore dismiss risks with personal choices for their health.  

 

I can tell you first-hand my experiences on how human behavior changes
as soon as fiscal responsibility to pay is shifted to the individual as
opposed to a faceless 3rd party.

 

It's sounds heartless to say (and even harder to defend)... but in order
to have people making GOOD decisions, you have to have examples of
people making BAD DECISIONS.

 

 

 

 

Jay

 

 

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:56 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] More Proof Preventative Health Care Saves

 

Numbers show high cost of skipping your meds

Numbers show how skipping your meds can have serious health impact,
financial consequences

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-show-high-cost-skipping-214621515.
html
<http://finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-show-high-cost-skipping-214621515
.html> 

 

"-Every dollar spent on medication decreases total health costs to
patients, insurers and government health programs by about $10.10 for
people with high blood pressure, by $8.40 for congestive heart failure
patients, by $6.70 for diabetics and by about $3.10 for patients with
cholesterol disorders."

 

And what idiots would pass up $3.10 to $10.10 return on each $1
invested? The same idiots that pass up universal preventive health care.
The same idiots that believe it is better to pay $10.10 of taxpayer
dollars in medical treatment tomorrow than to a give the person the
opportunity of insurance to spend $1 on medication today. But when your
interests lie with the person who gets the $10.10, only then it becomes
clear why denying them the insurance to get the medication is the
preferred action. 

 

Donovan Arnold                  


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