[Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Wed Jan 11 13:32:06 PST 2012
First, I am going to quit again soon. This is just a temporary diversion to
keep my mind off my troubles. Second, saying something to you and Jay is
hardly saying it to everyone. Let's just say, you two share some of the
same bothersome characteristics. And it ain't your political viewpoints![?]
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Donovan Arnold <
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Jeez Joe,
>
> You really ought not participate in V conversations if you're just going
> to end every post with a, "Tell it to the hand cuz the face ain't
> listing."
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> *To:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *Cc:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
> thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 2:15 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant
>
> Dude, you need to chill out. I didn't say anything like what you think I
> said. And you don't know me, so please don't try to speculate about my
> intentions. I was trying to add some clarity but in the future I'll just
> avoid you. Joe
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>wrote:
>
> No, it went down the OTHER way…****
> ** **
> Wayne Fox posted an article demonstrating Santorum’s ignorance. ****
> ** **
> Tom Hansen them posted a reply that read like something from “Song of the
> South”… linking it to bigotry.****
> ** **
> I am saying that these are not the same thing.****
> ** **
> (And now you’re blurring my point and trying to trap me even further by
> adding more words into the mix…. like “well-founded views”).****
> ** **
> Being BIGOTED doesn’t mean you’re STUPID… it means you’re IGNORANT. ****
> ** **
> Being STUPID doesn’t mean you’re BIGOTED. ****
> ** **
> If it worked like that, then we could simply draw a line on a chart and
> say, “everyone who has an IQ below 70 must be a racist, and all racists
> have an IQ below 70”.****
> ** **
> ** **
> ** **
> Jay****
> ** **
> *From:* Joe Campbell [mailto:philosopher.joe at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:12 PM
> *To:* Jay Borden
> *Cc:* Donovan Arnold; Tom Hansen; Art Deco; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ** **
> I agree, Jay. But I think Tom's point went in the other direction. Being a
> bigot or racist makes one stupid or ignorant. You don't want to argue
> against that do you? Or do you think that some bigots and racists have
> intelligent, well-founded views? Joe****
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:57 AM, Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> wrote:****
> This is getting into a level of semantics too inane even for me…****
> ****
> My only point is that being STUPID or IGNORANT does not necessarily make
> you a bigot or racist… as Tom Hansen seemed to be alluding to in his post.
> ****
> ****
> Being called either into today’s world both takes power away from TRULY
> exposing those with these types of opinions, as well as unfairly damages
> folks in the process.****
> ****
> ****
> Jay****
> ****
> *From:* Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:26 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> Jay,****
> ****
> If someone is stupid, you cannot change their ignorance. ****
> ****
> Donovan Arnold****
> ****
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
> thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:54 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> No, I believe that ‘bigotry’ is a product of ignorance, not stupidity.****
> ****
> You can’t change stupid… but you can educate yourself to a different
> degree of understanding.****
> ****
> ****
> Jay****
> ****
> *From:* Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:32 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> So you think bigotry is branch of intelligence, Mr. Borden?****
> ****
> Donovan Arnold****
> ****
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <
> thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:58 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> No.****
> ****
> Jay****
> ****
> *From:* Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:14 AM
> *To:* Jay Borden; Tom Hansen; Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> Isn't bigotry just a particular brand of stupidity?****
> ****
> Donovan Arnold****
> ****
> *From:* Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
> *To:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Art Deco <
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> Uh… what? Don’t blur stupidity with bigotry.****
> ****
> ****
> Jay****
> ****
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Hansen
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:42 AM
> *To:* Art Deco
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Lets' Be Ignorant****
> ****
> Yesirree, Bubba.****
> ****
> I mean . . . Doesn't that Prezdint Obommer know that them black folk have
> a ingrown hankerin' to shine shoes at the local mall and workin' them
> fields jus' like their great granpappies did yearin' ago . . . back on
> them warm, cozy plantations.****
> ****
> They don't need no collidge no how.****
> ****
> Seeya later, Moscow.****
> ****
> Tom Hansen****
> Spokane, Washington****
> ****
> "If not us, who?****
> If not now, when?"****
> ****
> - Unknown****
>
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:*
> ***
>
> *[image: Image removed by sender. Campaign Stops - Strong Opinions on the
> 2012 Election] <http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/>*****
> [image: Image removed by sender.]<http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=cookie&pos=Position1B>
> ****
> January 10, 2012, 12:13 am****
> *Rick Santorum’s Anti-College Rant*****
> *By CHARLES M. BLOW<http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/author/charles-m-blow/>
> *****
> Hey, I get it: Republicans have to reject and condemn virtually everything
> President Obama proposes, no matter how noble, to satisfy their base. This
> is our political predicament.****
> Rick Santorum, however, has followed that logic out the window. In New
> Hampshire last week Santorum accused President Obama of “elitist snobbery<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c65WNw84HRY>”
> and “hubris<http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/01/07/santorum-obama-s-a-snob.html>”
> for suggesting that “under my administration, every child should go to
> college.”****
>
> Who are you? Who are you to say that every child in America go … I mean
> the hubris of this president to think that he knows what’s best for you. I
> … you know there is … I have seven kids. Maybe they’ll all go to college.
> But, if one of my kids wants to go and be an auto mechanic, good for him.
> That’s a good-paying job – using your hands and using your mind. This is
> the kind of, the kind of snobbery that we see from those who think they
> know how to run our lives. Rise up America. Defend your own freedoms.****
>
> First, the facts: I can’t find a single instance where the president has
> actually said that. The president has consistently framed the discussion<http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-falls-in-global-ranking-of-young-adults-who-finish-college/2011/08/22/gIQAAsU3OK_story.html>as one of making high school graduates both college- and career-ready. And
> even when speaking about learning *after* high school, he has often
> included both higher education and vocational training.****
> For instance, during a joint session of Congress in February 2009, the
> president said:****
>
> It will be the goal of this administration to ensure that every child has
> access to a complete and competitive education – from the day they are born
> to the day they begin a career.****
>
> He continued:****
>
> And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or
> more of higher education or career training. This can be community college
> or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship.****
>
> A question, Rick: How does a person become an auto mechanic without either
> vocational training or an apprenticeship? Does he just spring forth from
> the womb knowing how to drop the transmission on a Dodge Durango? I didn’t
> think so. Moving right along …****
> The president has called for the reauthorization of<http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-calls-new-steps-prepare-america-s-children-success-college-and-care>the Elementary and Secondary Education Act and challenged states to
> “develop standards and assessments that will help America’s children rise
> to the challenge of graduating from high school prepared for college and
> the workplace.”****
> The president has also unveiled plans<http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=106636657&m=106658845>to help more students graduate from community college, a main tenet of his
> education agenda, saying,****
>
> We know that in the coming years, jobs requiring at least an associate
> degree are projected to grow twice as fast as jobs requiring no college
> experience. We will not fill those jobs or even keep those jobs here in
> America without the training offered by community colleges.****
>
> Now that we’ve established some facts, let’s turn to the larger question:
> Is it a bad thing to want more students to be prepared for college, to have
> access to college and to in fact attend college? Of course not.****
> As The Washington Post pointed out
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-falls-in-global-ranking-of-young-adults-who-finish-college/2011/08/22/gIQAAsU3OK_story.html>in
> September, an Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development report
> released that month found that****
>
> America’s global rank in college completion among young adults is
> slipping, according to a report released Tuesday, signaling that the higher
> education ambitions of other nations are progressing at a swifter pace.***
> *
>
> The Post continued:****
>
> Instead of gaining ground, the United States has fallen from 12th to 16thin the share of adults age 25 to 34 holding degrees, according to the
> report from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. It
> trails global leaders South Korea, Canada and Japan and is mired in the
> middle of the pack among developed nations.****
> The stagnant U.S. performance on this key international benchmark reflects
> at least two trends: the rapid expansion of college attendance in Asia and
> Europe, and the continuing emphasis on four-year degrees in the United
> States while other nations focus far more on one- and two-year professional
> credentials.****
>
> Sounds to me like the president’s plan is designed to address this. But
> then again, I’m applying regular logic, not “I-hate-Obama,
> stick-my-fingers-in-my-ears, say ‘la-la-la-la-la’ ” logic.****
> An even more disturbing finding in the O.E.C.D report is how poorly
> Americans perform in the job market without a college degree. Among
> Americans aged 18 to 64 whose highest level of education is “upper
> secondary and post-secondary non-tertiary” — the equivalent of high school
> and perhaps some vocational or community college training — the percentage
> of the employed is among the lowest of all O.E.C.D. countries. We rank 30
> th out of 34 countries, just above Greece, Hungary, Poland and Turkey.****
> Oh, the hubris and elitist snobbery of wanting a more educated, more
> highly employed work force.****
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com****
>
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> ****
> ****
> ****
>
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> ** **
>
>
>
>
>
>
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