[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Sun Jan 1 21:24:29 PST 2012

Obama supports civil unions on the Federal level, not marriage. Paul believes it is up to the states to decide.  According to Paul, civil liberties and natural rights are derived from being in a geographical location, not because they are a person, unless you are pregnant. 

Donovan Arnold

________________________________
 From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: 
Cc: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2012 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism

Neither of us were talking about DADT, we were talking about their positions on gay marriage, and as far as I know, Obama is not currently in favor of gay marriage. He has come out against the Defense of Marriage Act, but that would simply leave things to each state, which I believe is Paul's position.

Sunil

________________________________
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
From: thansen at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 17:54:18 -0800
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

Obama repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

Ron Paul stated more than once, during the debates, that he would not repeal DADT.

Seeya later, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Spokane, Washington

"If not us, who?
If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Jan 1, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with the benefit of polling?
>
>Sunil
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: deco at moscow.com
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism
>
> 
>Kelly, 
>  
>Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay 
marriage: 
>  
>As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against 
it.  He is against any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing 
each state to decide the issue themselves. 
>  
>Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the 
denial of gays to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing 
gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in other 
states are horrifying to contemplate. 
>
> w. 
>
> 
>From: keely emerinemix  
>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM 
>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com  
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com  
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism 
>
> 
>Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil -- 
but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be 
applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that 
you, I, or anyone else disagrees with.  It doesn't mean he ought to run for 
office, or that we ought to vote for him.
>
>There are plenty of people, I 
imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and 
who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social 
services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and imperfectly 
delivered as they are), but moral.  I think you and I see the 
defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud 
Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of other 
issues.  Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the 
ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to 
vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul supporter would 
acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his newsletter.  
>
>The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social policies 
will harm more people -- people already marginalized and suffering -- than the 
hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting administrations 
have.  Do I take any comfort in that?  
>
>No.  Not at 
all.  But I have to vote for the man who seems to have more, better answers 
than the one who has one or two good ones.  And I can't afford to combine 
the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the horror of, say, a Perry or 
Bachmann presidency.
>
>Thanks, Sunil.
>
>Keely
>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Date: Sat, 31 
Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism
>
> 
>Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying 
he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a 
minute.
>
>Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the 
defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the 
Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
>
>What say you, Keely, 
Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
>
>Sunil
>
>
> 
>
>________________________________
>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
>From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>To: deco at moscow.com
>CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On 
Ron Paul and Racism
>
>
>He has admitted to putting out an investment 
newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that 
printed the racist comments.  It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about 
what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of 
which have come true - just not in the way he thought.  Try taking a large 
pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.
>
>Another 
distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its 
goals.  Or maybe this is just jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the 
Daily Mail, after all.
>
>Paul
>
>On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco 
wrote: 
>See: 
>>
>>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html 
>>
>>Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself  acknowledging the letters, etc. 
>>
>>All javascript scripts must be allowed in  order to see the whole article including the videos. 
>>
>>w. 
>>
>> 
>>From: Paul Rumelhart  
>>Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM 
>>To: keely  emerinemix  
>>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com  
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and  Racism 
>>
>>
>>Does it matter whether or not the allegations are 
  true?  Or do we just call them out anyway?
>>
>>Here is an article from 
  CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
>>
>>The 
  article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:  
>>
>>"When I was 
  out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published 
  under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the 
  product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral 
  responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my 
  name."
>>
>>I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he 
  might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing to 
  Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong showing 
  there.
>>
>>I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
>>
>>And 
  once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.  These people 
  could care less if it's even true.  It's just 
  convenient.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote: 
>> 
>>>I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even  the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent  provocation.  That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate  indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil  rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I  believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.  
>>>
>>>Keely
>>>www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
>>>Date: Sat, 31 Dec 
    2011 14:41:13 -0800
>>>From: jborden at datawedge.com
>>>To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>
>>>  
>>>I’m  not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing  and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political  arsenal.   
>>>  
>>>It’s  used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.  (And, unless I  missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point). 
>>>  
>>>Insert  story of “crying wolf”. 
>>>  
>>>Jay 
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