[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Sunil Ramalingam
sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Sun Jan 1 17:47:33 PST 2012
So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with the benefit of polling?
Sunil
From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Kelly,
Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay
marriage:
As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against
it. He is against any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing
each state to decide the issue themselves.
Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the
denial of gays to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing
gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in other
states are horrifying to contemplate.
w.
From: keely emerinemix
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism
Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil --
but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be
applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that
you, I, or anyone else disagrees with. It doesn't mean he ought to run for
office, or that we ought to vote for him.
There are plenty of people, I
imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and
who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social
services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and imperfectly
delivered as they are), but moral. I think you and I see the
defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud
Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of other
issues. Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the
ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to
vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul supporter would
acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his newsletter.
The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social policies
will harm more people -- people already marginalized and suffering -- than the
hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting administrations
have. Do I take any comfort in that?
No. Not at
all. But I have to vote for the man who seems to have more, better answers
than the one who has one or two good ones. And I can't afford to combine
the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the horror of, say, a Perry or
Bachmann presidency.
Thanks, Sunil.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31
Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism
Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying
he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a
minute.
Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the
defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the
Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?
What say you, Keely,
Wayne, Saundra, Tom?
Sunil
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To:
deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On
Ron Paul and Racism
He has admitted to putting out an investment
newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that
printed the racist comments. It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about
what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of
which have come true - just not in the way he thought. Try taking a large
pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.
Another
distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its
goals. Or maybe this is just jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the
Daily Mail, after all.
Paul
On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco
wrote:
See:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself
acknowledging the letters, etc.
All javascript scripts must be allowed in
order to see the whole article including the videos.
w.
From: Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
To: keely
emerinemix
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and
Racism
Does it matter whether or not the allegations are
true? Or do we just call them out anyway?
Here is an article from
CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/
The
article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:
"When I was
out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published
under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the
product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral
responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my
name."
I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he
might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing to
Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong showing
there.
I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/
And
once again, this is only out there in order to distract us. These people
could care less if it's even true. It's just
convenient.
Paul
On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:
I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even
the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent
provocation. That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate
indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil
rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I
believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Date: Sat, 31 Dec
2011 14:41:13 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
I’m
not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing
and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political
arsenal.
It’s
used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics. (And, unless I
missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).
Insert
story of “crying wolf”.
Jay
From: keely
emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com]
Sent:
Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
To: Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Jay, I would rue
the day that racist behavior and bigoted views become irrelevant in how we
choose our leaders. There are issues that truly good people can
disagree on; racism, however, is never the view of a "truly good person,"
and in fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry, immediately make a pariah
out of the one who embraces it.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
Date: Sat, 31
Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
I
would agree with Paul’s statement… but I would word it a bit differently to
deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure will be heading my
way.
I
would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are *USED* as
theatrical issues.
It’s
interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in the polls, some
wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with one of these issues.
Then it’s pressed as long as necessary until the candidate just “goes
away”.
Rick
Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction… and then suddenly a story
about “Niggerhead” surfaced. (He has since nearly imploded on his own,
but that’s a separate issue).
Ron
Paul gains even more traction this time around in the polls… and suddenly
some story connecting HIM to racisim surfaces. (I don’t recall
anything coming up about this story 4 years ago when he was running for
President).
The
topics themselves are extremely important… but the *USE* of these
subjects has become nothing more than positioning and theatrical
tools.
Is
your opponent getting too much positive attention? No problem… just
toss out one of these venomous statements (who cares whether it’s true or
not… just phrase it in the form of an “objective question” like Fox News
does to avoid slander/libel)… and then sit back and watch the
show.
Once
some story making any of these accusations hits the public… it’s like
kryptonite… and it’s used as such.
Jay
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011
12:03 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
In
part, Paul wrote:
“Racism,
like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues". They are
issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs
for them to fight over. While they are important in and of themselves,
they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power
than we think we do.”
Yes,
I do suppose it’s a lot easier to look at issues like racism, abortion, and
gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when you’re not the minority
family unable to rent a home due to racism, and you’re not the
17-year-old incest victim forced to carry your granddaddy’s baby or risk
death from a backdoor abortion, and you’re not the lesbian at risk of
losing custody of your children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15 year
partner because her family never “approved” of the non-marriage.
Yuppers
– I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the position that those
issues, while “important,” really are just “theatrical issues” when one
isn’t the target, when one lacks of empathy . . . or when one lacks the
sense God gave a billy goat.
Not
in my America. I agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights and
even some privileges should belong to all citizens” and
shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives.
Paul
also wrote:
“In
my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .”
I
guess I’m unclear as to how you define “civil liberties,” but reproductive
freedom & gay marriage both fit into my definition of the right of
privacy, which is an important US civil liberty.
Saundra
Lund
Moscow,
ID
The
only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
~
Edmund Burke
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, December 31,
2011 9:37 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
I
sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list.
Paul
-----
Forwarded Message -----
From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To:
Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
It
doesn't negate the evidence. For what it's worth, he claims that he
didn't write those newsletters that were put out in his name. Like
you've shown, a person can be compassionate and still be racist. Being
racist is not a black and white thing, no pun intended. It's something
that can change over a period of years. I grew up in a casually racist
household, and had to unlearn much of that over the years, as did my
parents. It's easy to fall into that trap when you grow up with it and
everyone around you thinks the same thing. As society changed, so did
those around me, and so did I.
I've
said this many times on the Viz: I'm not looking for Jesus Christ or
Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential candidate to vote for. I
want someone who will perform well in the job.
So
the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard racist from the
sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going to deny blacks the right to
vote or serve on juries?
Racism,
like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues". They are
issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs
for them to fight over. While they are important in and of themselves,
they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power
than we think we do. In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil
liberties, and in stopping the steady power buildup for the Executive branch
that's been going on for years. That's far more dangerous to us in the
short term than any of these hot button issues are. Like Sunil said in
another post, it's all about priorities.
Paul
From:
Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
To:
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
It’s
a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron Paul’s compassion, but
how does it negate the evidence of his racism in those published
reports? My Texas grandfather was a racist through and through, yet he
performed kind and generous acts to the people he belittled, and to whom he
would have denied the vote, the right to serve on juries (along with women)
and most especially the right to sit up front in public
transportation.
Sue
H.
From:
Paul
Rumelhart
Sent:
Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PM
To:
vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject:
[Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
Here
is a video in response to allegations of racism being leveled at Ron
Paul. It was made by "Revolution PAC", a "superPAC" whose sole purpose
is to get Ron Paul elected. It's entitled "The Compassion of Dr. Ron
Paul":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
If
we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism on the list, I
thought it might be nice to see what his side has to say.
Paul
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