[Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism

Sunil Ramalingam sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
Sun Jan 1 17:47:33 PST 2012


So currently is his position any different than Obama's? Is the only difference that Obama's position is 'evolving,' perhaps with the benefit of polling?

Sunil

From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:25:02 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw:  On Ron Paul and Racism










Kelly,
 
Here in a nutshell is Ron Paul's position on gay 
marriage:
 
As a lifelong Christian, he is personally against 
it.  He is against any federal legislation on this issue, but for allowing 
each state to decide the issue themselves.
 
Needless to say, besides most likely leading to the 
denial of gays to marry in many states, the legal morasses created by allowing 
gay marriage in some states and not allowing it or not recognizing it in other 
states are horrifying to contemplate.
 
 w.




From: keely emerinemix 
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:14 PM
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism


Being a racist doesn't mean he's wrong on these issues, Sunil -- 
but it means that, as Ron Paul (if he is, in fact, a racist), he should be 
applauded for those views he holds that are correct and challenged on any that 
you, I, or anyone else disagrees with.  It doesn't mean he ought to run for 
office, or that we ought to vote for him.

There are plenty of people, I 
imagine, who are right about the issues you mention below who aren't bigots, and 
who -- perhaps more germane to the conversation -- wouldn't gut the social 
services that make this country not only habitable (imperfect and imperfectly 
delivered as they are), but moral.  I think you and I see the 
defense/national security issues fairly similarly, and we likely also applaud 
Paul's views on legalizing marijuana, gay marriage, and maybe a couple of other 
issues.  Nonetheless, even those areas on which I agree with Paul -- the 
ones I just mentioned and the ones you did -- aren't enough for me either to 
vote for him, or overlook what at least the most fervent Paul supporter would 
acknowledge was carelessness in letting bigots crank out his newsletter.  


The cumulative effect of Paul's economic and some of his social policies 
will harm more people -- people already marginalized and suffering -- than the 
hundreds of thousands this and the previous war-courting administrations 
have.  Do I take any comfort in that?  

No.  Not at 
all.  But I have to vote for the man who seems to have more, better answers 
than the one who has one or two good ones.  And I can't afford to combine 
the worst of both Obama and Paul by risking the horror of, say, a Perry or 
Bachmann presidency.

Thanks, Sunil.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com






From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31 
Dec 2011 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
Racism





Let's for one moment assume that Paul is a racist. I'm not saying 
he is, just assume he is so that issue doesn't need to be discussed for a 
minute.

Is he wrong on ending our wars? Is he wrong on cutting the 
defense budget? Is he wrong about the Patriot Act? Is he wrong about the 
Executive Branch seizing powers it should not have?

What say you, Keely, 
Wayne, Saundra, Tom?

Sunil





Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:20:01 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: 
deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On 
Ron Paul and Racism


He has admitted to putting out an investment 
newsletter that (as far as I can tell) was not one of the newsletters that 
printed the racist comments.  It had all sorts of conspiracy theories about 
what will happen to people trying to deal in large amounts of cash, most of 
which have come true - just not in the way he thought.  Try taking a large 
pile of cash through airport security and see how well that goes.

Another 
distraction attempt, supposedly a smoking gun, apparently succeeds in its 
goals.  Or maybe this is just jumping on the bandwagon, since it is the 
Daily Mail, after all.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 04:44 PM, Art Deco 
wrote: 

  See:
   
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078217/Ron-Paul-racist-homophobic-newsletters-Video-taking-credit.html
   
  Scroll down to see the videos of Paul Himself 
  acknowledging the letters, etc.
   
  All javascript scripts must be allowed in 
  order to see the whole article including the videos.
   
  w.
  
  

  
  From: Paul Rumelhart 
  Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 3:52 PM
  To: keely 
  emerinemix 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and 
  Racism
  

Does it matter whether or not the allegations are 
  true?  Or do we just call them out anyway?

Here is an article from 
  CBS News about the newsletters: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57345702-503544/ron-paul-disavows-racist-newsletters-under-his-name/

The 
  article contains a quote by Ron Paul on the issue:  

"When I was 
  out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published 
  under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the 
  product," he said. "For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral 
  responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my 
  name."

I'd hate to see the man dragged over the coals for something he 
  might not have deserved solely because (for example) Jon Huntsman is losing to 
  Ron Paul in New Hampshire and has staked his campaign on a strong showing 
  there.

I got that last bit from this article: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57349712-503544/huntsman-calls-ron-paul-unelectable-because-of-racist-newsletters/

And 
  once again, this is only out there in order to distract us.  These people 
  could care less if it's even true.  It's just 
  convenient.

Paul

On 12/31/2011 02:44 PM, keely emerinemix wrote: 

  
    

    I don't think you're defending racism, racist behavior, or even 
    the wrongness of screaming "He's a racist!" at the slightest apparent 
    provocation.  That said, I think it's imperative that legitimate 
    indications that an individual's views on race/gender/class/civil 
    rights/culture are bigoted be called out, examined, and condemned -- and I 
    believe that the text of Ron Paul's newsletters are an example.  
    

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com



    
    
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 
    2011 14:41:13 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com


    

    

    
    I’m 
    not *defending* racism, I’m commenting on the mere finger-pointing 
    and accusations being so charged that it’s a nuclear weapon in a political 
    arsenal.  
     
    It’s 
    used as a tool for distraction, and hence, theatrics.  (And, unless I 
    missed the mark, perhaps Mr. Rumelhart’s point).
     
    Insert 
    story of “crying wolf”.
     
    
    Jay
     
    
    
    From: keely 
    emerinemix [mailto:kjajmix1 at msn.com] 
Sent: 
    Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:27 PM
To: Jay Borden; v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: 
    RE: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
     
    
    Jay, I would rue 
    the day that racist behavior and bigoted views become irrelevant in how we 
    choose our leaders.  There are issues that truly good people can 
    disagree on; racism, however, is never the view of a "truly good person," 
    and in fact ought to, by virtue of popular outcry, immediately make a pariah 
    out of the one who embraces it.

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com


    
    
    
    
    Date: Sat, 31 
    Dec 2011 14:17:33 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: 
    Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
    
    I 
    would agree with Paul’s statement… but I would word it a bit differently to 
    deflect some of the immediate hatred I’m sure will be heading my 
    way.
     
    I 
    would say that racism, like abortion and gay marriage are *USED* as 
    theatrical issues.  
     
    It’s 
    interesting as soon as any candidate becomes popular in the polls, some 
    wild-card story gets tossed about dealing with one of these issues.  
    Then it’s pressed as long as necessary until the candidate just “goes 
    away”.
     
    Rick 
    Perry (again, not a fan) was gaining traction… and then suddenly a story 
    about “Niggerhead” surfaced.  (He has since nearly imploded on his own, 
    but that’s a separate issue).
     
    Ron 
    Paul gains even more traction this time around in the polls… and suddenly 
    some story connecting HIM to racisim surfaces.  (I don’t recall 
    anything coming up about this story 4 years ago when he was running for 
    President).
     
    The 
    topics themselves are extremely important… but the *USE* of these 
    subjects has become nothing more than positioning and theatrical 
    tools.   
     
    Is 
    your opponent getting too much positive attention?  No problem… just 
    toss out one of these venomous statements (who cares whether it’s true or 
    not… just phrase it in the form of an “objective question” like Fox News 
    does to avoid slander/libel)… and then sit back and watch the 
    show.
     
    Once 
    some story making any of these accusations hits the public… it’s like 
    kryptonite… and it’s used as such. 
     
    
    Jay
     
    
    
    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
    [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
    On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 
    12:03 PM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: 
    Re: [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
     
    In 
    part, Paul wrote:
    “Racism, 
    like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are 
    issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs 
    for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves, 
    they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power 
    than we think we do.”
     
    Yes, 
    I do suppose it’s a lot easier to look at issues like racism, abortion, and 
    gay marriage as “theatrical issues” when you’re not the minority 
    family unable to rent a home due to racism, and you’re not the 
    17-year-old incest victim forced to carry your granddaddy’s baby or risk 
    death from a backdoor abortion, and you’re not the lesbian at risk of 
    losing custody of your children born via IVF to your now-deceased 15 year 
    partner because her family never “approved” of the non-marriage.
     
    Yuppers 
    – I guess for some, it is a lot easier to take the position that those 
    issues, while “important,” really are just “theatrical issues” when one 
    isn’t the target, when one lacks of empathy . . . or when one lacks the 
    sense God gave a billy goat.
     
    Not 
    in my America.  I agree with Sue’s comment, “All rights and 
    even some privileges should belong to all citizens” and 
    shouldn’t depend on where in the US one lives.
     
    Paul 
    also wrote:
    “In 
    my opinion we should concentrate on our civil liberties . . .”
     
    I 
    guess I’m unclear as to how you define “civil liberties,” but reproductive 
    freedom & gay marriage both fit into my definition of the right of 
    privacy, which is an important US civil liberty.
     
     
    Saundra 
    Lund
    Moscow, 
    ID
     
    The 
    only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do 
    nothing.
    ~ 
    Edmund Burke
     
    
    
    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com 
    [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
    On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 
    2011 9:37 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: 
    [Vision2020] Fw: On Ron Paul and Racism
     
    
    
    I 
    sent this only to Sue, when I meant to send it to the list.
    
     
    
    Paul
    
     
    
    
    ----- 
    Forwarded Message -----
From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: 
    Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> 
    
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: 
    [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
    
    
    
    
    It 
    doesn't negate the evidence.  For what it's worth, he claims that he 
    didn't write those newsletters that were put out in his name.  Like 
    you've shown, a person can be compassionate and still be racist.  Being 
    racist is not a black and white thing, no pun intended.  It's something 
    that can change over a period of years.  I grew up in a casually racist 
    household, and had to unlearn much of that over the years, as did my 
    parents.  It's easy to fall into that trap when you grow up with it and 
    everyone around you thinks the same thing.  As society changed, so did 
    those around me, and so did I.
    
     
    
    I've 
    said this many times on the Viz:  I'm not looking for Jesus Christ or 
    Gandhi when I'm looking for a Presidential candidate to vote for.  I 
    want someone who will perform well in the job.
    
     
    
    So 
    the question is, assuming he is some kind of die-hard racist from the 
    sixties like he's being portrayed, is he going to deny blacks the right to 
    vote or serve on juries?
    
     
    
    Racism, 
    like abortion and gay marriage, are all "theatrical issues".  They are 
    issues that are tossed out to the American public like scraps to hungry dogs 
    for them to fight over.  While they are important in and of themselves, 
    they are really meant to distract us from realizing that we have more power 
    than we think we do.  In my opinion we should concentrate on our civil 
    liberties, and in stopping the steady power buildup for the Executive branch 
    that's been going on for years.  That's far more dangerous to us in the 
    short term than any of these hot button issues are.  Like Sunil said in 
    another post, it's all about priorities.
    
     
    
    Paul
    
     
    
    
    
    
    
    From: 
    Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: 
    Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
    
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: 
    [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
    
    
    
    
    
    It’s 
    a lovely story, Paul. And a powerful instance of Ron Paul’s compassion, but 
    how does it negate the evidence of his racism in those published 
    reports?  My Texas grandfather was a racist through and through, yet he 
    performed kind and generous acts to the people he belittled, and to whom he 
    would have denied the vote, the right to serve on juries (along with women) 
    and most especially the right to sit up front in public 
    transportation.  
    
     
    
    Sue 
    H.       
    
    
    
     
    
    
    From: 
    Paul 
    Rumelhart 
    
    Sent: 
    Friday, December 30, 2011 10:18 PM
    
    To: 
    vision2020 at moscow.com 
    
    Subject: 
    [Vision2020] On Ron Paul and Racism
    
     
    
    
    
    Here 
    is a video in response to allegations of racism being leveled at Ron 
    Paul.  It was made by "Revolution PAC", a "superPAC" whose sole purpose 
    is to get Ron Paul elected. It's entitled "The Compassion of Dr. Ron 
    Paul":
    
     
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rv0Z5SNrF4
    
     
    
    If 
    we're going to attack Ron Paul with allegations of racism on the list, I 
    thought it might be nice to see what his side has to say.
    
     
    
    Paul
    
    
    
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