[Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

Thu Feb 16 08:46:47 PST 2012

I’ll make my answer as ridiculous as your question.

“All liberals are Fiat-driving left-handed diabetic gynecologists.”.

Jay

From: Moscow Cares [mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:44 AM
To: Jay Borden
Cc: Donovan Arnold; Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

Remind us again, Mr. Borden -

All liberals are . . .

Seeya later, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Post Falls, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Feb 16, 2012, at 6:56, "Jay Borden" <jborden at datawedge.com> wrote:

	You really really really really really need to brush up on your understanding of mutual exclusivity.  You’re basically saying you cannot be both Republican AND fiscally conservative or a proponent of the constitution.  You’re basically saying that if you’re a member of the Tea Party, then you have an anti-gay agenda.  

	This is not true.  

	Start throwing around terms like “all Christians are Republican” or “all Republicans are Christian” and maybe you can see where this falls apart.

	If you want to take this to your next (illogical) step, why not just say that “anyone who votes Republican has an anti-gay agenda?”   

	Jay

	From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
	Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:15 AM
	To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen
	Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
	Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

	Jay,

	You can claim all you want that it is faulty logic, but it is factually true that ALL of the candidates they listed and endorse are publicly against gays having equality. To me, and most others that can read between the lines, that makes them anti-gay.  And there is no such thing as a part of the Republican Party that is "the fiscal /constitutional right." Those people for sound fiscal policy and the constitutional rights of people are called Libertarians, Democrats and Independents. 

	Donovan Arnold

	From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
	To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> 
	Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
	Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:23 AM
	Subject: RE: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

	This is faulty logic.  They are just giving a punch list of the candidates jockeying for the Republican nomination.  

	Using this same logic, you could suggest that EVERYONE who votes Republican has an anti-gay agenda… and using the same logic one can say that EVERYONE who votes Democrat must have a socialist agenda.  (Neither of which are true).

	(In fact, some folks here on V2020 have said that if Huntsman were voted into office, they least wouldn’t lose sleep over it… since Huntsman was listed in this newsletter, does that mean that these same V2020 folks must also have an anti-gay agenda?)

	While the candidates themselves might have a slanted view of gay rights, I don’t see any indication that the Tea Party is only listing folks that have passed some sort of “Anti-Gay Agenda Seal of Approval”…  the Tea Party may be extreme, but in a different direction than Tom  Hansen is suggesting.     If you want to find an element of bigotry and hatred towards gays on the Republican side of the political coin, you’ll find it in the religious right… not the fiscal /constitutional right.

	Jay

	From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
	Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:31 AM
	To: Jay Borden; Tom Hansen
	Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
	Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

	Jay,

	Every person they endorsed is against equality for gays and you don't think they are against equality for gays? If an organization only endorsed Grand Dragons of the KKK would you claim also to be so blind that you don't see how they are anti-civil rights? 

	Donovan Arnold

	From: Jay Borden <jborden at datawedge.com>
	To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> 
	Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
	Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:16 PM
	Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

	Ok... you've provided a link to a Tea Party newsletter... which begins
	with a pre-amble of core Tea Party beliefs (which center around "stop
	spending, stop tramping the Constitution")....

	... and continues on to list off the current Republican candidates with
	a short cheat-sheet on their stances on major issues:  Healthcare and
	Entitlements, Education, Spending and Taxes, Immigration, Energy, and
	National Security.

	There's one line item in there for "Rick Perry" for a category called
	"social", which lists he supports traditional marriage, and signed the
	Defense of Marriage Act... 

	That's not even close to a smoking gun.  If there's an "anti-gay" agenda
	in there, I must have missed it.

	Jay

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
	Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:32 PM
	To: Jay Borden
	Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
	Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .

	Are you sure about that, Mr. Borden?

	http://www.teapartyboise.com/newsletter_12-21-2011.pdf

	Hmmm.

	Seeya later, Moscow.

	Tom Hansen
	Post Falls, Idaho

	"If not us, who?
	If not now, when?"

	- Unknown

	On Feb 14, 2012, at 13:24, "Jay Borden" <jborden at datawedge.com> wrote:

	> Wait... you're suggesting that the Tea Party is responsible for Idaho
	> not passing equal rights legislation?
	> 
	> I think you're confusing the "Taxed Enough Already" splinter of the
	> Republican party with the "Religious Right" membership of the
	Republican
	> party.
	> 
	> 
	> Jay
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
	> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
	> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 12:53 PM
	> To: Moscow Vision 2020
	> Subject: [Vision2020] A Dedication to . . .
	> 
	> . . . the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender citizens of the
	state
	> of Washington for a fight well fought . . . and won . . .
	> 
	> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Y9nYCcYbw
	> 
	> Now, if only Idaho can wean itself from the Tea Party (undeniable
	proof
	> that pygmy three-toed sloths and chimpanzees do mate), perhaps we can
	> join the rest of this great nation in recognizing the 14th amendment
	to
	> the U.S. Constitution and applying it to all of our citizens.
	> 
	> Seeya later, Moscow.
	> 
	> Tom Hansen
	> Post Falls, Idaho
	> 
	> "If not us, who?
	> If not now, when?"
	> 
	> - Unknown
	> 
	> 
	> 
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	         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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