[Vision2020] The N.R.A. at the Bench

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Fri Dec 28 15:23:02 PST 2012


These points are mystifying, Gary! In as much as there is an argument here,
it is an argument for gay marriage, abortion, drug legalization -- you name
it. If the real reason is "who decides what we need?" and "The government"
is NOT the answer, then why have laws at all? Let's be honest: you are in
favor of more restrictions to human behavior than I am! That's why I find
this response mystifying.

Answer: for protection. We form governments and have laws in order to
protect the life and interests of citizens. Andy noted that, in terms of
civilized governments, we lead the rest (a) gun violence and (b) easy
access to firearms. Might there be a connection? If so, then I think that
there is reason to consider better control of certain firearms. Unless you
are an anarchist and don't believe in laws at all, you have to concede that
there is some merit to this argument. Joe

On Dec 28, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>
wrote:

I really don't know why I persist in this discussion. It's not as though
these types of rifle are going to be wished out of existence by the earnest
ideologue who believes in his heart of hearts that it would make any real
difference but, here goes.
Need. Do people need ANY firearm? Probably not. After all it's not
mandatory that we hunt or protect ourselves or our loved ones much less
shoot for recreation. Of course we don't need automobiles either. Taking
public transportation would be  adequate to get to and fro. We don't need
steak and wine and lobster etc. a nice gruel enhanced with all the vitamins
and minerals we require would be sufficient to meet our nutritional needs.
We most assuredly don't need all the variety in clothing available, a one
piece coverall in what ever color was cheapest to produce would really be
enough protect from the elements (this assumes that you really need to be
protected from the elements) And then there is housing. All the different
houses, apartments and condominiums are a waste. Government provided
tenements or barracks would give everyone a place to sleep and store their
totally unnecessary belongings.

The better question would really have to be who decides what other people
need. Do you want me to decide for you what you should and shouldn't have?
I think we know the answer to that one.

g

g
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Andy Boyd <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>wrote:

> Ok, research does show a decrease in violent crimes using AW starting with
> the gun ban and continuing after it was lifted.****
>
> That being said I would still like to know why someone would need this
> type of weapon.****
>
> Of all ‘developed’ nations we have more violent gun crime then all other
> developed nations combined so how do you suggest limiting these types of
> crimes?  Will arming teachers help? More guns equals less crime?****
>
> Andy Boyd****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Gary Crabtree [mailto:moscowlocksmith at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 28, 2012 11:31 AM
> *To:* Andy Boyd
> *Cc:* Art Deco; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] The N.R.A. at the Bench****
>
> ** **
>
> "Since the assault weapons ban has been lifted, there have been more
> violent crimes."****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> I can't speak to "violent crimes" over all as I don't know how it's
> defined but gun violence is down. The assault weapons ban had zero effect
> on gun crime.****
>
>  ****
>
> "I don’t wish to take away all guns. And I don’t imagine the benefits,
> they are real."****
>
>  ****
>
> Since you are willing to take away many thousands of guns to solve a
> problem that reflects less than two percent of gun violence, how many guns
> would you be willing to ban to prevent over sixty two percent? Suicide by
> firearm only requires but a single shot. Why would any sane American
> believe that once one class of firearm was made illegal that others
> wouldn't soon follow? People such as yourself will always have a
> rationalization for taking away the rights of others****
>
>  ****
>
> g****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> g****
>
> ** **
>
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Andy Boyd <moscowrecycling at turbonet.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Since the assault weapons ban has been lifted, there have been more
> violent crimes.****
>
> ** **
>

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