[Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .

Carl Westberg idahovandal1 at live.com
Thu Dec 20 09:08:15 PST 2012


I have seen or heard nothing to suggest that there is any danger of your legally owned handgun kept in your home for self defense being taken away.  Relax.....

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 08:59:06 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: rforce2003 at yahoo.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .

That's your recommended defense against someone who, for whatever reason, has broken into my house with me inside of it?  Expect the best of them?  Should I trust in fate and never wear seat belts?

Oh, and pardon me for relating a story relevant to the topic at hand.

Paul


        From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
 To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; philosopher.joe at gmail.com 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
 Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
   

As long as we're substituting anecdotes for data, I can say that I do get on airplanes frequently. In 71 years of life, my home has never been burglarized or invaded. I have never been mugged or even threatened on the street. I have traveled to fifty states, seven continents and thirty countries and found only friendly and cooperative people. I observe common-sense precautions to avoid situations where I could be put in danger, like patronizing sleazy bars while flashing a big roll of bills (I know, no fun).

The only time I found it necessary to be armed was during a year in Vietnam and even there, the great majority of the people I met were non-belligerent. I sold my personal guns when I returned, and don't miss them. Life is a happier place if you expect the best
 of people and don't look for dangers lurking around every
 corner.            
                
                    

                    
                        
                            
                            
                                From:
                            
                            Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>;                            

                            
                                To:
                            
                            Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>;                                                     

                            
                                Cc:
                            
                            vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>;                                                                             

                            
                                Subject:
                            
                            Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .                            

                            
                                Sent:
                            
                            Wed, Dec 19, 2012 10:02:26 PM                            

                            
                            

                            
                                
                                    
                                        I get on an airplane very infrequently, even less so now that the TSA is out of control.  I go to bed every night.  My friend's dad stopped someone from climbing through his bedroom window a number of years ago by the simple expedient of pointing a large revolver in his face.  This had a deterrent effect; the suspected burglar backed out the window quickly and ran off, probably to go get a change of underwear.  You live long enough, something strange will happen.  Better to be prepared.

Gun safety is an issue.  Many newer guns have extra safety features.  I hope they continue to innovate in this area.  Certainly there is much more that can be done to reduce firearm-related
 accidents.

Paul


        From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
 To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>; vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
   

Paul,

Again you are mistaken about the facts. Do some research. If you live in a high crime district, having a gun might provide more safety than potential for harm. If not, the potential for harm is greater. Those are the facts. No matter how much confidence you have in yourself, living in Moscow, ID your gun is much more likely to do you harm than good. I promise you that (unfortunately) we are much more likely to read about someone committing suicide with a firearm, or harming another, than protecting him- or herself in this particular town.


Think of this analogy. Would you ever think of bringing a parachute aboard an airplane? Well, there was a time when it was much more probable that you would die in a plane crash than via a home invasion. (I'm not sure of the statistics now; not many people die on commercial airlines.) If you were to bring a parachute aboard a plane, you would be perceived as suffering from wild paranoia. Of course there is a chance the plane will go down but (a) it is very unlikely and (b) very unlikely to help were a situation to arise (remember the point I made yesterday that in order for a gun to be useful it has to be loaded and available for use, yet that increases the likelihood of accident).


I'm sorry but you and others who are unyielding about gun control seem as paranoid as a guy with a parachute boarding an airplane. The analogy is very close. But the difference is that the proliferation of guns increases risks of gun violence for all of us, as the Sandy Hook episode shows. It isn't just a personal liberty debate; it is a public harm debate, as well. We have a history of sacrificing liberties in order to prevent harms. Again, I don't always agree with these choices and we need to be very cautious about how to proceed. But to dismiss gun control as an option based on some flawed view of liberty is unwise.


Joe

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

What was I thinking?  Home invasions never happen.

Paul


   
     From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>

 To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>; Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>; vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 

 Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:44 AM
 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't it about time . . .
 
  

Paul Rumelhart tells us:

"Yet I'd still prefer having one available if I ever needed one."

Paranoia . . . Self-Destroya!

Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares"

http://www.MoscowCares.com
  
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
 

On Dec 19, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:


> Yet I'd still prefer having one available if I ever needed one.


    



    
                                    
                                
                            
                    
                
            


    
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