[Vision2020] [Spam 3.90] Re: Concealed Hand Gun Laws

[Dan Carscallen]

Not sure if I'm creating another plot hole or what . . . 

You fired a warning shot and your attacker continued. Perhaps he was on bath salts, or suffered from some mental malady, or was deaf(?)

I would think your defense attorney would look into the history of your "attacker", but your thought experiment is quite the sticky wicket

DC

On Dec 12, 2012, at 20:08, "Robert Dickow" <dickow at turbonet.com> wrote:

> I’ll try to cover all the plot holes in my thought experiment in order to focus on the central issue: In the poorly-lit street I see a flash of light on an object the perp is carrying, and I think it’s a knife. Only later I learn that it is a flash of light off a reflective wrist band or jewelry ornament. I fire the second shot (the first is a warning shot),  at fairly close range, after a brief struggle. There are no witnesses so it doesn’t matter if I say that, yes, I yelled a lot. Let’s say I did but it only seems to enrage the attacker. Let’s say the perp appears intoxicated or insane and is making threatening remarks, frightening me. No witnesses, remember.  I’m the only one seeing and hearing her/him so there is no way to prove that there were verbal threats or warnings. I might have escaped without firing, and considered doing so, but it was a fast-moving situation,  my escape route appeared blocked by a nearby delivery van and some stacked construction materials. There was indeed my first warning shot, but the perp did not cease his/her advance. Through a fluke of luck the shoves and punches I received did not leave a lasting mark on my person or clothing.
>  
> It’s the ability to prove self-defense that I’m exploring, not principally the gun thing per se. The item of self-defense could have been a knife or just my bare hands I suppose. The point I’m hinting at is that maybe, one had better have some good witnesses when defending oneself in certain situations. However, a further implication is that if I had only a knife or my bare hands for self-defense, I might have been more likely to attempt to run away or continue fighting off the attacker.
>  
> Bob Dickow, troublemaker
>  
> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:27 PM
> To: Robert Dickow
> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: [Spam 3.90] Re: [Vision2020] Concealed Hand Gun Laws
>  
> You say that the perp attacked you.  How did (s)he attack you?  Was it sufficient to leave scars on your body?
>  
> What was it about the perp that made you feel threatened, other than mere surprise?
>  
> Could you have escaped the situation without having to use a weapon?
>  
> Under what circumstances was the fatal round fired? Accidental due to close physical interaction?  Could you have fired a warning shot or warned the perp, "Hey sh*thead!  I have a gun and I WILL use it unless you leave RIGHT-FU*KING NOW!"
>  
> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>  
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>   
> Tom Hansen, CPL  (Commie Pinko Liberal)
> Moscow, Idaho
>  
> 
> On Dec 12, 2012, at 7:12 PM, "Robert Dickow" <dickow at turbonet.com> wrote:
> 
> I am being serious now…
>  
> This question has no doubt been addressed by various experts, but I just thought up a situation that poses a question in my mind about ethics and legal practicalities:
>  
> Let’s say, for the sake of this thought experiment, that I own a handgun that I carry, concealed, for my personal self defense.  I find myself alone on a dark city street and I am surprise attacked by a lone individual (whom I perceive a mugger), who ignores my shouts and warnings. My shouts are not noticed by anyone in the neighborhood. I shoot and kill the person, who I feel is threatening my life. There are no witnesses or recorded phone calls (unlike the Trayvon Martin shooting). I have not suffered any visible injuries. How do I prove that I shot in self-defense?
>  
> Offhand I don’t see how I can ‘prove’ self-defense.  I can only claim self defense. Why couldn’t the county prosecutor say ‘BS’ and have me put me away for life? Is my thought experiment a situation in which I really can’t, or should not, use the gun? Or, from another line of thinking, if I can simply declare self-defense in a case like this, I could ‘legally’ go out and shoot an innocent pedestrian on a whim, and I could get away with murder.
>  
> Thoughts?
>  
> Bob Dickow, troublemaker
>  
>  
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