[Vision2020] How Many More . . .
Wayne Price
bear at moscow.com
Fri Aug 17 14:21:54 PDT 2012
Ron,
40 states HAVE dram shop laws, 10 don't. And nowhere can you sue the
manufacturer.
My point was, should a manufacturer be held liable for the misuse of
their other wise legitimate goods?
Wayne
On Aug 17, 2012, at 2:13 PM, Ron Force wrote:
> Bartenders? Google "Dram Shop Laws". 40 states have them. Library
> books stump me, though. Outside of clobbering someone with a
> dictionary, I can't think of another use. Not imaginative enough.
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
> From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
> To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>
> Ron,
>
> " ... seeking to hold gun manufacturers and dealers liable for
> negligence when their weapons are used in crimes..."
>
> I the truest spirt of equity,how far do we carry this? Do we hold
> auto manufactures and dealers liable when their products are used in
> crimes? Bartenders and distilleries liable when their products are
> used in crimes? What about holding Sears liable when someone buys
> and uses a Craftsman screw driver in a crime? Someone checks out a
> book from a library and uses it in a crime, do we hold the author,
> publisher and the local library liable? If someone buys a two by
> four at Moscow Building Supply, and uses it to commit a crime, do we
> hold Moscow Building Supply and the mill where the 2x4 was
> manufactured liable?
>
> It's far too slippery of a slope to hold a legitimate manufacturer
> and dealer liable when they have no control over their products, no
> matter what those products are, once they leave the manufactures and
> dealers control.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ron Force wrote:
>
>> The Republicans have already exempted the gun industry from
>> responsibility:
>>
>>
>> Congress Passes New Legal Shield for Gun Industry
>>
>>
>> By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
>> Published: October 21, 2005
>> WASHINGTON, Oct. 20 - The Republican-controlled Congress delivered
>> a long-sought victory to the gun industry on Thursday when the
>> House voted to shield firearms manufacturers and dealers from
>> liability lawsuits. The bill now goes to President Bush, who has
>> promised to sign it.
>>
>> Carol T. Powers for The New York Times
>> Wayne LaPierre of the N.R.A. called the bill "historic."
>>
>> Forum: The 109th Congress
>> The gun liability bill has for years been the No. 1 legislative
>> priority of the National Rifle Association, which has lobbied
>> lawmakers intensely for it. Its final passage, by a vote of 283 to
>> 144, with considerable Democratic support, reflected the changing
>> politics of gun control, an issue many Democrats began shying away
>> from after Al Gore, who promoted it, was defeated in the 2000
>> presidential race.
>> "It's a historic piece of legislation," said Wayne LaPierre, the
>> association's chief executive, who said the bill was the most
>> significant victory for the gun lobby since Congress rewrote the
>> federal gun control law in 1986. "As of Oct. 20, the Second
>> Amendment is probably in the best shape in this country that it's
>> been in decades."
>> The bill, which is identical to one approved in July by the Senate,
>> is aimed at ending a spate of lawsuits by individuals and
>> municipalities, including New York City, seeking to hold gun
>> manufacturers and dealers liable for negligence when their weapons
>> are used in crimes...
>>
>> Ron Force
>> Moscow Idaho USA
>> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com
>> >
>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>>
>> What they need to do is just put a traceable serial number on each
>> gun. When it ends up killing innocent people, charge all the people
>> that were in charge of the gun for violating the law from the
>> manufacturer to the person that gave it to them. If that was done
>> these incidents would not happen.
>>
>> Donovan J. Arnold
>>
>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>> To: Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com>
>> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>>
>> That I do not know.
>>
>> BUT . . .
>>
>> It has been reported by several news sources that James Holmes, the
>> suspect in the Aurora (Colorado) theater killings, purchased his
>> collection of weapons from a local gun shop while he was seeing a
>> psychiatrist.
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
>> college students are not very active in local elections (thank
>> goodness!)."
>>
>> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:46 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > That's a good question. I don't frequent gun shows.
>> >
>> > Did this Corkins fellow get his at a gun show?
>> >
>> > DC
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:45 AM
>> > To: Dan Carscallen
>> > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>> >
>> > Enlighten us, Area Man.
>> >
>> > What background checks are conducted by gun retailers at gun shows?
>> >
>> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> >
>> > Tom Hansen
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
>> college students are not very active in local elections (thank
>> goodness!)."
>> >
>> > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 AM, "Dan Carscallen"
>> <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tom,
>> >>
>> >> I did not miss your point. I was aiming elsewhere, so to
>> speak. I was just commenting on other parts of the article and
>> other elements of the situation.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know when was the last time you bought a handgun, but
>> there is a background check process. Is it comprehensive?
>> Probably not so much, but you do have to wait. How long? I can't
>> recall, since rules/laws have changed several times since the last
>> time I bought one without having a concealed weapon permit. Having
>> the permit, you've already been through a background check process,
>> but you still fill out the same forms as buying any other firearm
>> (still not a quick process).
>> >>
>> >> How do we assess mental health without infringing on somebody's
>> rights as an American? That's a question for the ages. There
>> aren't any easy answers. It's a people problem, not a gun
>> problem. This cat in Virginia, if you believe his neighbors, was a
>> mellow dude. Do we keep folks who hold "radical" (in either
>> direction) beliefs from buying or owning firearms? How radical is
>> "radical"? Where do you draw the line?
>> >>
>> >> I'm not trying to push your buttons, I promise. I'm just
>> opining like everyone else on the mailing list.
>> >>
>> >> DC
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:56 AM
>> >> To: Dan Carscallen
>> >> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>> >>
>> >> No, Area Man.
>> >>
>> >> You ENTIRELY miss the intent of my posting.
>> >>
>> >> Somebody obtained a handgun with the sole purpose of killing
>> people . . . for no better reason than their expressed beliefs.
>> This is WRONG, no matter who pulls the trigger.
>> >>
>> >> It was reported, by another source (I forget exactly), that
>> Corkins purchased the handgun locally with very little (if, at all,
>> any) background check SIX DAYS AGO! In addition to the handgun,
>> Corkins purchased two 30-round magazines.
>> >>
>> >> NOW DO YOU GET IT?
>> >>
>> >> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>> >>
>> >> Tom Hansen
>> >> Moscow, Idaho
>> >>
>> >> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
>> college students are not very active in local elections (thank
>> goodness!)."
>> >>
>> >> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:33 AM, "Dan Carscallen"
>> <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I'm not trying to fan any flames or anything, but this seems to
>> be totally opposite of your "standard" shooting scenario. The
>> loonball going in and shooting up Planned Parenthood or something
>> is the norm (and how freakin' sad is it that we say "standard" or
>> "the norm"), not an LGBT center volunteer going after a Christian
>> "defense of marriage" group.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would imagine this should be considered a "hate crime", but
>> is it a hate crime if it's committed against what the SPLC has
>> labeled a "hate group"? Hate goes both ways.
>> >>>
>> >>> In my opinion, the shooter is always ultimately to blame, no
>> matter what video games played, movies watched, or gun used. And
>> how come we always hear from the neighbors that the shooter was
>> "always kind, unassuming, quiet, nice", etc.? I guess everyone has
>> a breaking point.
>> >>>
>> >>> Luckily, nobody is dead, but a tragedy nonetheless.
>> >>>
>> >>> DC
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> >>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:45 AM
>> >>> To: Moscow Vision 2020
>> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
>> >>>
>> >>> Should background investigations be conducted more seriously
>> prior to the sale of handguns and/or assault weapons? Or are we
>> forced to place our faith in nothing more than the "Oh, No"
>> concept, such that . . . when something heinous happens, groups
>> gather around the incident, repeatedly muttering, "Oh, no. Oh,
>> no. Oh, no. . . . "
>> >>>
>> >>> "Sources say Corkins walked into the Family Research Council
>> and said 'It’s not about you, it’s about the policy,' and then shot
>> the guard."
>> >>>
>> >>> Courtesy of WJLA-TV (Washington, DC) at:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/08/chinatown-shooting-leaves-two-wo
>> >>> u
>> >>> nded-78851.html
>> >>>
>> >>> -----------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>> Late Wednesday, investigators descended on the Herndon family
>> home of the suspect in a shooting at the headquarters of a downtown
>> D.C. conservative Christian lobbying firm.
>> >>>
>> >>> No one leaving the home wanted to talk, but neighbors describe
>> the family as a retired military couple with two younger sons. They
>> say they saw no signs of trouble from the family, who they
>> described as good neighbors.
>> >>>
>> >>> But police say that wasn't the case Wednesday morning.
>> >>>
>> >>> Floyd Corkins II, 28, of Virginia is accused of shooting a
>> security guard at the Family Research Council after criticizing the
>> group's anti-gay stance, a source tells ABC7.
>> >>>
>> >>> The shooting took place at 801 G Street, about a block west of
>> the Verizon Center.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sources say Corkins walked into the Family Research Council and
>> said “It’s not about you, it’s about the policy,” and then shot the
>> guard.
>> >>>
>> >>> The guard, who was shot in the shoulder, was conscious and
>> breathing after the incident.
>> >>>
>> >>> The suspect was taken into custody by the FBI and was being
>> interviewed. Authorities later found his vehicle at the East Falls
>> Church Metro station.
>> >>>
>> >>> Corkins had been volunteering for about the past six months at
>> The DC Center for the LGBT Community, said David Mariner, executive
>> director of the community center, which is in Northwest Washington.
>> He usually staffed the center's front desk on Saturdays, and his
>> most recent shift was about two weeks ago.
>> >>>
>> >>> "He always struck me as a kind, gentle and unassuming young
>> man. I'm very surprised that he could be involved in something like
>> this," Mariner said.
>> >>>
>> >>> Though authorities did not publicly reveal a motive, advocacy
>> groups across the ideological spectrum condemned the violence, with
>> some casting it as a hate crime.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Today's attack is the clearest sign we've seen that labeling
>> pro-marriage groups as 'hateful' must end," Brian Brown, the
>> president of the National Organization for Marriage, said in a
>> statement.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Family Research Council's president, Tony Perkins, said the
>> organization's primary concern was with the wounded guard.
>> >>>
>> >>> White House spokesman Jay Carney said the president, who was
>> traveling in Iowa Wednesday, was informed of the shooting shortly
>> after 1 p.m.
>> >>>
>> >>> "The president expressed his concern for the individual injured
>> in the shooting and his strong belief that this type of violence
>> has no place in our society," Carney said.
>> >>>
>> >>> Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said in a
>> statement that he was appalled. "There is no place for such
>> violence in our society," he said. "My prayers go out to the
>> wounded security guard and his family, as well as all the people at
>> the Family Research Council whose sense of security has been
>> shattered by today's horrific events."
>> >>>
>> >>> FBI spokeswoman Jacqueline Maguire said during a press
>> conference that the injured security guard went "above and beyond"
>> and hailed him as a hero.
>> >>>
>> >>> In a statement posted, FRC President Tony Perkins said the
>> victim worked with the organization.
>> >>>
>> >>> "The police are investigating this incident," Perkins said in a
>> statement. "Our first concern is with our colleague who was shot
>> today. Our concern is for him and his family."
>> >>>
>> >>> The Associated Press identifies the FRC as a "conservative
>> Christian lobbying group." On its website, the group says it
>> advocates "faith, family and freedom in public policy and public
>> opinion."
>> >>>
>> >>> The FRC is no stranger to controversy, even labeled by the
>> Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group because of its stance
>> against homosexuality. It's not hard to find the anger online, with
>> one critic describing the group as having “ignorant, disproven,
>> backwoods values” another adding, “it's why we fight.”
>> >>>
>> >>> Many consider the FRC to be one of the most powerful religious
>> right lobbying groups in the country and supporters see it as a
>> bedrock of conservative, family principles.
>> >>>
>> >>> The group boasts of its widespread influence in politics and
>> just this week expressed its excitement to have vice presidential
>> candidate Paul Ryan and possibly Mitt Romney as well, speak at its
>> upcoming Values Voter Summit in D.C.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Family Research Council advocates conservative positions on
>> social issues and strongly opposes gay marriage and abortion.
>> >>>
>> >>> Perkins was an outspoken defender of Chick-fil-A President Dan
>> Cathy's public stand against same-sex marriage, which made the fast-
>> food chain a flashpoint in the nation's culture wars. The Cathy
>> family foundation has funded the Family Research Council.
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> "He's taking a bold stand," Perkins said after Cathy's comments
>> were reported. "Chick-fil-A is a Bible-based, Christian-based
>> business who treats their employees well. They have been attacked
>> in the past about their stand. But they refuse to budge on this
>> matter, and I commend them for what they are doing."
>> >>>
>> >>> The suspect allegedly had Chick-fil-A materials inside a bag he
>> carried into the building during the shooting.
>> >>>
>> >>> The FBI released this statement late Wednesday about the
>> investigation:
>> >>>
>> >>> “Today, officers from the Metropolitan Police Department and
>> Special Agents from the FBI Washington Field Office responded to
>> the scene of a shooting at 801 G Street NW, Washington D.C. Taken
>> into custody was Floyd Lee Corkins II, 28, of Herndon, Va. He is
>> being held overnight on a charge of Assault with a Deadly Weapon.
>> The investigation into the shooting is continuing. The FBI will
>> make no further comment at this time.”
>> >>>
>> >>> Corkins reportedly volunteered with The DC Center for the LGBT
>> Community. David Mariner, the executive director of the LGBT
>> organization, released a statement regarding Wednesday's shooting:
>> >>>
>> >>> "I was shocked to hear that someone who has volunteered with
>> the DC Center could be the cause of such a tragic act of violence.
>> No matter the circumstances, we condemn such violence in the
>> strongest terms possible. We hope for a full and speedy recovery
>> for the victim and our thoughts are with him and his family."
>> >>>
>> >>> Interfaith Alliance President Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy also
>> issued the following statement:
>> >>>
>> >>> "We don’t yet know the details of today’s shooting at the
>> headquarters of the Family Research Council, but our thoughts and
>> prayers are with the injured security guard and his colleagues at
>> FRC. What we do know is that these all too frequent shootings must
>> stop. Whatever our disagreements, be they substantive policy
>> arguments, misguided bigotry, or petty misunderstandings, guns
>> cannot be the answer. Rather than disrespecting people because they
>> hold ideas with which we disagree and turning on them with
>> violence, we must find our way back to civility. Otherwise, as a
>> nation, we will lose our democracy and our moral compass."
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------
>> >>>
>> >>> A security guard was shot inside the headquarters of the Family
>> Research Council in Washington on Wednesday morning.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> =======================================================
>> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>> >>> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>> http://www.fsr.net/
>> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>> >> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >> http://www.fsr.net/
>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net/
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net/
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20120817/6c93faa6/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list