[Vision2020] How Many More . . .

Thu Aug 16 14:58:17 PDT 2012

I don't think a background check would necessarily unearth whether or not the prospective buyer was seeing a psychiatrist.  Also, does a psychiatrist have legal obligation to report things like 'my client told me he wants to commit mayhem?' and even if he / she did have the legal obligation to do so, would they report it?  And if they reported, would law enforcement even do any damn thing to try and prevent it?  Once the mayhem has been unleashed and the lunatic says 'I told my shrink and he did nothing to prevent me from carrying this carnage, it's actually his / her fault', who'd believe the nutcase anyway?  The doctor could just shrug it off legally.

There are no easy answers where to draw the line between gun rights / gun control / assault weapons bans.  It's as complicated as trying to draw a line between a woman's right to reproductive choice (aka abortion) and a sperm's / egg's right to life.  They're both never ending arguments.

-Scott

> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:57:56 -0700
> To: areaman at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
> 
> That I do not know.
> 
> BUT . . .
> 
> It has been reported by several news sources that James Holmes, the suspect in the Aurora (Colorado) theater killings, purchased his collection of weapons from a local gun shop while he was seeing a psychiatrist.
> 
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
> 
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:46 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> 
> > That's a good question.  I don't frequent gun shows.
> > 
> > Did this Corkins fellow get his at a gun show?
> > 
> > DC
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:45 AM
> > To: Dan Carscallen
> > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
> > 
> > Enlighten us, Area Man.
> > 
> > What background checks are conducted by gun retailers at gun shows?
> > 
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > 
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> > 
> > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
> > 
> > - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:37 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> Tom,
> >> 
> >> I did not miss your point.  I was aiming elsewhere, so to speak.  I was just commenting on other parts of the article and other elements of the situation.
> >> 
> >> I don't know when was the last time you bought a handgun, but there is a background check process.  Is it comprehensive?  Probably not so much, but you do have to wait.  How long? I can't recall, since rules/laws have changed several times since the last time I bought one without having a concealed weapon permit.  Having the permit, you've already been through a background check process, but you still fill out the same forms as buying any other firearm (still not a quick process).  
> >> 
> >> How do we assess mental health without infringing on somebody's rights as an American?  That's a question for the ages.  There aren't any easy answers.  It's a people problem, not a gun problem.  This cat in Virginia, if you believe his neighbors, was a mellow dude.  Do we keep folks who hold "radical" (in either direction) beliefs from buying or owning firearms?  How radical is "radical"?  Where do you draw the line?
> >> 
> >> I'm not trying to push your buttons, I promise.  I'm just opining like everyone else on the mailing list.
> >> 
> >> DC
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:56 AM
> >> To: Dan Carscallen
> >> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
> >> 
> >> No, Area Man.
> >> 
> >> You ENTIRELY miss the intent of my posting.  
> >> 
> >> Somebody obtained a handgun with the sole purpose of killing people . . . for no better reason than their expressed beliefs.  This is WRONG, no matter who pulls the trigger. 
> >> 
> >> It was reported, by another source (I forget exactly), that Corkins purchased the handgun locally with very little (if, at all, any) background check SIX DAYS AGO!  In addition to the handgun, Corkins purchased two 30-round magazines.
> >> 
> >> NOW DO YOU GET IT?
> >> 
> >> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >> 
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >> 
> >> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
> >> 
> >> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:33 AM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I'm not trying to fan any flames or anything, but this seems to be totally opposite of your "standard" shooting scenario.  The loonball going in and shooting up Planned Parenthood or something is the norm (and how freakin' sad is it that we say "standard" or "the norm"), not an LGBT center volunteer going after a Christian "defense of marriage" group.
> >>> 
> >>> I would imagine this should be considered a "hate crime", but is it a hate crime if it's committed against what the SPLC has labeled a "hate group"?  Hate goes both ways.
> >>> 
> >>> In my opinion, the shooter is always ultimately to blame, no matter what video games played, movies watched, or gun used.  And how come we always hear from the neighbors that the shooter was "always kind, unassuming, quiet, nice", etc.?  I guess everyone has a breaking point.
> >>> 
> >>> Luckily, nobody is dead, but a tragedy nonetheless.
> >>> 
> >>> DC
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> >>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:45 AM
> >>> To: Moscow Vision 2020
> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] How Many More . . .
> >>> 
> >>> Should background investigations be conducted more seriously prior to the sale of handguns and/or assault weapons?  Or are we forced to place our faith in nothing more than the "Oh, No" concept, such that . . . when something heinous happens, groups gather around the incident, repeatedly muttering, "Oh, no.  Oh, no.  Oh, no. . . . "
> >>> 
> >>> "Sources say Corkins walked into the Family Research Council and said 'It’s not about you, it’s about the policy,' and then shot the guard."
> >>> 
> >>> Courtesy of WJLA-TV (Washington, DC) at:
> >>> 
> >>> http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/08/chinatown-shooting-leaves-two-wo
> >>> u
> >>> nded-78851.html
> >>> 
> >>> -----------------------------------
> >>> 
> >>> Late Wednesday, investigators descended on the Herndon family home of the suspect in a shooting at the headquarters of a downtown D.C. conservative Christian lobbying firm.
> >>> 
> >>> No one leaving the home wanted to talk, but neighbors describe the family as a retired military couple with two younger sons. They say they saw no signs of trouble from the family, who they described as good neighbors.
> >>> 
> >>> But police say that wasn't the case Wednesday morning.
> >>> 
> >>> Floyd Corkins II, 28, of Virginia is accused of shooting a security guard at the Family Research Council after criticizing the group's anti-gay stance, a source tells ABC7.
> >>> 
> >>> The shooting took place at 801 G Street, about a block west of the Verizon Center.
> >>> 
> >>> Sources say Corkins walked into the Family Research Council and said “It’s not about you, it’s about the policy,” and then shot the guard.
> >>> 
> >>> The guard, who was shot in the shoulder, was conscious and breathing after the incident.
> >>> 
> >>> The suspect was taken into custody by the FBI and was being interviewed. Authorities later found his vehicle at the East Falls Church Metro station.
> >>> 
> >>> Corkins had been volunteering for about the past six months at The DC Center for the LGBT Community, said David Mariner, executive director of the community center, which is in Northwest Washington. He usually staffed the center's front desk on Saturdays, and his most recent shift was about two weeks ago.
> >>> 
> >>> "He always struck me as a kind, gentle and unassuming young man. I'm very surprised that he could be involved in something like this," Mariner said.
> >>> 
> >>> Though authorities did not publicly reveal a motive, advocacy groups across the ideological spectrum condemned the violence, with some casting it as a hate crime.
> >>> 
> >>> "Today's attack is the clearest sign we've seen that labeling pro-marriage groups as 'hateful' must end," Brian Brown, the president of the National Organization for Marriage, said in a statement.
> >>> 
> >>> The Family Research Council's president, Tony Perkins, said the organization's primary concern was with the wounded guard.
> >>> 
> >>> White House spokesman Jay Carney said the president, who was traveling in Iowa Wednesday, was informed of the shooting shortly after 1 p.m.
> >>> 
> >>> "The president expressed his concern for the individual injured in the shooting and his strong belief that this type of violence has no place in our society," Carney said.
> >>> 
> >>> Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said in a statement that he was appalled. "There is no place for such violence in our society," he said. "My prayers go out to the wounded security guard and his family, as well as all the people at the Family Research Council whose sense of security has been shattered by today's horrific events."
> >>> 
> >>> FBI spokeswoman Jacqueline Maguire said during a press conference that the injured security guard went "above and beyond" and hailed him as a hero.
> >>> 
> >>> In a statement posted, FRC President Tony Perkins said the victim worked with the organization.
> >>> 
> >>> "The police are investigating this incident," Perkins said in a statement. "Our first concern is with our colleague who was shot today. Our concern is for him and his family."
> >>> 
> >>> The Associated Press identifies the FRC as a "conservative Christian lobbying group." On its website, the group says it advocates "faith, family and freedom in public policy and public opinion."
> >>> 
> >>> The FRC is no stranger to controversy, even labeled by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group because of its stance against homosexuality. It's not hard to find the anger online, with one critic describing the group as having “ignorant, disproven, backwoods values” another adding, “it's why we fight.”
> >>> 
> >>> Many consider the FRC to be one of the most powerful religious right lobbying groups in the country and supporters see it as a bedrock of conservative, family principles.
> >>> 
> >>> The group boasts of its widespread influence in politics and just this week expressed its excitement to have vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan and possibly Mitt Romney as well, speak at its upcoming Values Voter Summit in D.C.
> >>> 
> >>> The Family Research Council advocates conservative positions on social issues and strongly opposes gay marriage and abortion.
> >>> 
> >>> Perkins was an outspoken defender of Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy's public stand against same-sex marriage, which made the fast-food chain a flashpoint in the nation's culture wars. The Cathy family foundation has funded the Family Research Council.
> > 
> >>> 
> >>> "He's taking a bold stand," Perkins said after Cathy's comments were reported. "Chick-fil-A is a Bible-based, Christian-based business who treats their employees well. They have been attacked in the past about their stand. But they refuse to budge on this matter, and I commend them for what they are doing."
> >>> 
> >>> The suspect allegedly had Chick-fil-A materials inside a bag he carried into the building during the shooting.
> >>> 
> >>> The FBI released this statement late Wednesday about the investigation:
> >>> 
> >>> “Today, officers from the Metropolitan Police Department and Special Agents from the FBI Washington Field Office responded to the scene of a shooting at 801 G Street NW, Washington D.C. Taken into custody was Floyd Lee Corkins II, 28, of Herndon, Va. He is being held overnight on a charge of Assault with a Deadly Weapon. The investigation into the shooting is continuing. The FBI will make no further comment at this time.”
> >>> 
> >>> Corkins reportedly volunteered with The DC Center for the LGBT Community. David Mariner, the executive director of the LGBT organization, released a statement regarding Wednesday's shooting:
> >>> 
> >>> "I was shocked to hear that someone who has volunteered with the DC Center could be the cause of such a tragic act of violence. No matter the circumstances, we condemn such violence in the strongest terms possible. We hope for a full and speedy recovery for the victim and our thoughts are with him and his family."
> >>> 
> >>> Interfaith Alliance President Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy also issued the following statement:
> >>> 
> >>> "We don’t yet know the details of today’s shooting at the headquarters of the Family Research Council, but our thoughts and prayers are with the injured security guard and his colleagues at FRC. What we do know is that these all too frequent shootings must stop. Whatever our disagreements, be they substantive policy arguments, misguided bigotry, or petty misunderstandings, guns cannot be the answer. Rather than disrespecting people because they hold ideas with which we disagree and turning on them with violence, we must find our way back to civility. Otherwise, as a nation, we will lose our democracy and our moral compass."
> >>> 
> >>> ---------------
> >>> 
> >>> A security guard was shot inside the headquarters of the Family Research Council in Washington on Wednesday morning.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
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