[Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting . . .

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 11 11:48:51 PDT 2012


Despite Tom Hansen's assumptions, I don't really have a position on this 
topic, other than the simple positions that conceal carry can be a good 
thing and that someone who does so needs to be well trained and wise in 
their use of a weapon.

I just think it's an interesting thing to think about.  What would I do 
if I were in that theater and happened to have a weapon concealed on my 
person?  I'm still unsure about the answer to that.

I don't know that we *can* prevent things like this from happening 
without becoming something as a society that we'd rather not be. Bad 
things happen.  Personally, I'd rather have the option of shooting back 
when they do.

Paul

On 08/11/2012 10:36 AM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> Paul,
>
> I agree with some of your position, but just packing heat in itself 
> isn't enough especially when you consider the 'frenzied crowd' part of 
> the equation where panic takes over instead of cooler heads 
> prevailing.  You'd really need someone who was combat trained or who 
> had otherwise been involved in shootouts (police officer probably) who 
> knew how to keep calm and when the proper time was to draw, aim, and 
> fire to diffuse the whole chaotic scene.
>
> Columbine, Aurora, Virginia Tech to name a few were horrific and 
> unexpected situations.  I think it's a tough problem to try and 
> prevent these and / or stop them once they mayhem has started. :(
>
> -Scott
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:57:26 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is Promoting 
> . . .
>
>
> Yes, you'd have to be damn sure about your line of fire. Firing in the 
> middle of a frenzied crowd running panicked for the exits would surely 
> be asking for trouble.  However, it's my understanding that for a 
> while during the shooting the shooter had complete control of the 
> situation.  Anyone trying to leave was shot.  Many people were playing 
> dead in the hopes they would  be passed over.  Firing on the shooter, 
> even if he's in body armor, might distract him enough that some people 
> might have made it to the exits. Body armor doesn't make you 
> invincible, depending on the armor and the caliber of the weapon used 
> you might still have made an impact, since he'd still be hit by the 
> blunt force of the bullet.  In this situation, though, you would 
> probably also have been shot dead shortly after because he was so well 
> prepared (vest, leggings, throat protector, groin protector, and a 
> helmet with a visor).  Who knows? Telling a loved one "when I start 
> shooting, RUN for the exit and don't stop" might have worked.
>
> Most other shootings like this we've heard about haven't involved such 
> a heavily armored assailant.  In fact, quite a few of them have taken 
> place in areas where gun use is often restricted, such as in schools 
> or on university campuses. Harris and Kliebold wore T-shirts and cargo 
> pants at Columbine.  A student who had happened to have smuggled a gun 
> into the school might have been able to have had a real impact on that 
> event.
>
> An interesting thing to think about, in my opinion. Apparently, that 
> opinion is not shared on this list.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 08/11/2012 08:13 AM, Art Deco wrote:
>
>     It's hard to think of something more foolish than someone or ones
>     with a hand gun in a disorganized, panicky crowd trying to shoot a
>     person with a automatic weapon shielded by body armor.  How many
>     more victims would be added to the final body count?
>
>     Didn't something like this happen in the Moscow Massacre?
>
>     w.
>
>     On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Donovan Arnold
>     <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>         Tom,
>         While your wife if shopping Tri-State, you should be to. I
>         mean come on, support your community why don't you. :)
>         Donovan J. Arnold
>
>         *From:* Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com
>         <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
>         *To:* Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>         <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
>         *Cc:* "<vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>"
>         <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>         *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2012 6:47 PM
>
>         *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State is
>         Promoting . . .
>
>         You may very well be right, Sunil.
>
>         It's just a habit I have acquired while in the service.  Trust
>         those around you, but keep your powder dry.
>
>         I saw the poster at Tri-State.  And, as I've said before, this
>         is the first time I have seen such an advertisement in Moscow.
>          I checked a few things out, such as its website, phone
>         number, etc. etc. etc. (Hey, I needed something to pass the
>         time while my wife was shopping at Tri-State).
>
>         The more I dug, the more red flags I found.  The more red
>         flags I found, the more I dug.  I have so many info sources,
>         concerning the NFT Academy, bookmarked for reference I am
>         thinking of discarding half of 'em.
>
>         Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
>         Tom Hansen
>         Moscow, Idaho
>
>         "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
>          The college students are not very active in local elections
>         (thank goodness!)."
>
>         - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>         On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
>         <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>         <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             I've taken such a class and in the past had a concealed
>             weapon permit; who knows, I may again. I don't think this
>             class is a big deal.
>
>             Sunil
>
>             From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>             Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:41:58 -0700
>             To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>             Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [more] Look See What Tri-State
>             is Promoting . . .
>
>             The primary reason this caught my eye . . .
>
>             I have lived here in Moscow for just over twenty years.
>              The is the FIRST time I have seen concealed-weapon
>             classes openly advertised in town.  Couple that up with
>             the increasing paranoia, as a result of the recent
>             instances in Aurora (Colorado) and Milwaukee (Wisconsin),
>             and I feel I have a right to be curious.
>
>             BTW, the NFT Academy website has only been in existence
>             since April 2012 and was not publicly released until June
>             12, 2012 (TWO MONTHS AGO).
>
>             http://fiddlerstudios.com/created-by-fs/announcing-the-national-firearms-training-academy-website/
>             I have more info to share, concerning the NFT Academy and
>             its website, but let's see where this thread leads.
>
>             Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
>             Tom Hansen
>             Moscow, Idaho
>
>             "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college
>             students.  The college students are not very active in
>             local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
>             - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>             On Aug 10, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
>             <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>             <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Something legal? The nerve! Next they'll be selling guns!
>
>                 Sunil
>
>                 From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
>                 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:24:56 -0700
>                 To: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>                 Subject: [Vision2020] Look See What Tri-State is
>                 Promoting . . .
>
>                   
>                   
>                 Seeya round town, Moscow.
>                   
>                 Tom Hansen
>                 Moscow, Idaho
>                   
>                 "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
>                   
>                 - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>                   
>
>
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>     -- 
>     Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>     art.deco.studios at gmail.com <mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
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