[Vision2020] Local Chomos & Religion (was RE: Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says)
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Thu Aug 9 14:53:45 PDT 2012
http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_0250
Seeya round town, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
On Aug 9, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Oh, BTW, Paul, it isn’t “just this one guy” that Wilson changed his “death for chomos” position on -- there’s another of Wilson’s male believers (was in Wilson’s Greyfriar’s “training” program) who sexually abused a young girl under the age of 16 who was subsequently married off."
>
> Again, I'm not taking his side. I was just guessing as to why he might work with any number of sex offenders yet still be able to say that he virulently opposes it.
>
> Paul
>
> From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> To: 'Joe Campbell' <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>; 'Paul Rumelhart' <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Cc: 'viz' <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:11 PM
> Subject: Local Chomos & Religion (was RE: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says)
>
> Amen, Joe.
>
> Fortunately, those godless civil authorities in some states aren’t nearly as willing to factor faux religion & repentance into the picture when it comes to public safety. Check out:
> http://www.co.stevens.wa.us/sheriff/sexofflist/sitler%2012-21%20thru%2027th.pdf
>
> Note the date (just five months ago) and their assessment of Sitler’s risk to reoffend:
> “Sitler scored as a High Risk to re-offend based on official documents, reports and evaluations provided by the Washington State Department of Corrections and the Idaho Department of Corrections.”
>
> How curious that the State of Washington assesses Sitler’s dangerousness far, far more seriously than did either Wilson or the sentencing Idaho judge.
>
> Oh, BTW, Paul, it isn’t “just this one guy” that Wilson changed his “death for chomos” position on -- there’s another of Wilson’s male believers (was in Wilson’s Greyfriar’s “training” program) who sexually abused a young girl under the age of 16 who was subsequently married off.
>
> I think a much more accurate assessment of Wilson’s supposed “death for chomos” position is that he believes it only for child molesters who don’t attend his church/plant/mission/associated ventures & financially support his various enterprises. IOW, it’s nothing more than a position of convenience for Wilson.
>
>
> Saundra
> Moscow, ID
>
> I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
> ~ Susan B. Anthony
>
>
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Joe Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:30 AM
> To: Paul Rumelhart
> Cc: viz
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>
> Fair enough. But it is a very bad justification, and his is a dangerous view to hold. He should be criticized for saying things like that or for suggesting in any way that he is qualified to be a counselor about such matters.
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm not arguing his point, I'm just making a guess as to what I think he would say to justify the apparent discrepancy between his earlier comments and his support of this one guy.
>
> Paul
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 6:37 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>
> How is it relevant that Wilson is convinced that the man was cured? We're talking about pedophilia. Do you know what the recidivism rate is? Do you know that rate is for people who have "repented their sins" or do we have any reason for thinking it is less than what it usually is? Supporting this is taking religious freedom to a new level.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 7, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Making no judgments either way, but I bet if someone asked Doug he would say that he is convinced that this one person repented his sins.
>
> Paul
>
> On 08/07/2012 05:48 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
> Doug and Dale are like a lot of conservatives that I know. They have rigid view how people should behave and be punished based on their misinterpretation of 'the word of God'. And then someone that they know up close and personal gets into a complicated situation and for that person, this rigid punishment no longer applies for this particular instance. I remember Doug posting something on V2020 years ago about divorce was blessing considering some of the bad marriages he had seen / counseled. I don't disagree with that. Would Doug write a letter to the judge just because the 'parents had lots of money which they showered' on him? I doubt it. I don't think it was a tit for tat. My guess would be that Doug knew the parents up close and personal and he writes that he spent time counseling the perp which he then got to know up close and personal and then he accordingly wrote the letter to the judge. Me personally, I think the sentence should have been swift and severe, and after his incarceration (if it ever ended), the perp ought to never be allowed around anyone under the age of 18. Period.
> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:18:12 -0700
> From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>
> Tom,
>
> Surely the Douglas Wilson who wrote the letter you displayed cannot be the same Douglas Wilson who wrote
> on page 85 of Fidelity, explaining how pedophiles should be dealt with: “But when we are dealing with young children who are abused by adults (pederasty, child porn, etc.) the penalty for those guilt of the crime should be death”
>
> Surely no one could be that corrupt, hypocritical, venial, and dishonest, and at the same time call himself a pastor of the Christian faith.
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
> Or how about . . .
>
> "Uh, how about a one-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a level-3 sex offender."
>
> - Dale Courtney (August 3, 2005)
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>
> - Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 5:09 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
> Surely this can't be the same Douglas Wilson who once strongly and unequivocally advocated the death penalty for child molesters like Steven Sitler. Surely no one could be that big of a hypocrite especially where innocent children are involved. Surely no decent, ethical, and empathetic human would change his mind just because the pervert's parents had lots of money which they showered on the writer of the letter.
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> A local enabler and protector?
>
> Somebody like . . .
> <image.jpeg>
> <image.jpeg>
>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't he have a local enabler and protector? Perhaps you have a photo of him.
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
> Correction:
>
> 118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho), the address of the Moscow Police Department, is listed as Mr. Sitler’s “college address”.
>
> http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Moscow Cares
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 4:05 PM
> To: Art Deco
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>
> Courtesy of the Idaho State Police at:
>
> http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985
>
>
> <image012.jpg>
>
>
> Mr. Sitler's address is 118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho) which coincides with the address of the Moscow Police Department. Anybody care to inquire?
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think I get it. You wouldn't happen to have a recent photo, would you? That would remove all doubt.
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Something like . . .
>
> <image.jpeg>
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
> Gee Tom, I wonder who it could be. Maybe you could post a link or two to help me figure it out. If there any links pointing to a letter describing an incident with a two year old, that would maybe narrow it down a bit.
>
> Puzzled,
>
> w.
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> An anti-gay organization that shelters child abusers?
>
> Gee, Wayne. That sounds somewhat very familiar.
>
> Nah! Nothing like that could happen here in Moscow . . . huh.
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "If not us, who?
> If not now, when?"
>
> - Unknown
>
> On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
> <image013.png>
> August 6, 2012
>
> Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>
> Jason Felch
> Los Angeles Times
> LOS ANGELES – For nearly a century, the Boy Scouts of America has relied on a confidential blacklist known as the “perversion files” as a crucial line of defense against sexual predators.
> Scouting officials say they’ve used the files to prevent hundreds of men who had been expelled for alleged sexual abuse from returning to the ranks. They’ve fought hard in court to keep the records from public view, saying confidentiality was needed to protect victims, witnesses and anyone falsely accused.
> “It is a fact that Scouts are safer because the barrier created by these files is real,” Scouts Chief Executive Robert Mazzuca said in video posted on the organization’s website in June.
> That barrier, however, has been breached repeatedly.
> A Los Angeles Times review of more than 1,200 files dating from 1970 to 1991 found more than 125 cases across the country in which men allegedly continued to molest Scouts after the organization was first presented with detailed allegations of abusive behavior.
> Predators slipped back into the program by falsifying personal information or skirting the registration process. Others were able to jump from troop to troop around the country thanks to clerical errors, computer glitches or the Scouts’ failure to check the blacklist.
> In some cases, officials failed to document reports of abuse in the first place, letting offenders stay in the organization until new allegations surfaced. In others, officials documented abuse but merely suspended the accused leader or allowed him to continue working with boys while on “probation.”
> In at least 50 cases, the Boy Scouts expelled suspected abusers, only to discover later that they had re-entered the program and were accused of molesting again.
> “Basically, there were no controls,” said Bill Dworin, a retired Los Angeles police expert on child sexual abuse who reviewed hundreds of the files as a witness for an Oregon man abused by his troop leader in the 1980s.
> In response to the Times’ findings, the Scouts issued a statement that said in part:
> “The Boy Scouts of America believes even a single instance of abuse is unacceptable, and we regret there have been times when the BSA’s best efforts to protect children were insufficient. For that we are very sorry and extend our deepest sympathies to victims. … We are committed to the ongoing enhancement of our program, in line with evolving best practices for protecting youth.”
> The Scouts have maintained “ineligible volunteer” files in one form or another since at least 1919 to keep track of men who failed to meet Scouting’s moral standards. Files that involved allegations of child sexual abuse were dubbed “perversion files.” A master list of those banned from Scouting has been computerized since 1975 and is used to vet applicants for volunteer and paid positions.
> Only a select few in Scouting have access to the files, which are kept in 15 locked cabinets at Scout headquarters in Irving, Texas. But over the years, hundreds of the files have been admitted as evidence, usually under seal, in lawsuits by former Scouts alleging a pattern of abuse in the organization.
> Many of the files will soon be made public as a result of an Oregon Supreme Court decision. The court, in response to a petition by the Oregonian, the Associated Press, the New York Times and other media organizations, ordered the release of 1,247 files from 1965 to 1984 that had been admitted as evidence, under seal, in the 2010 lawsuit.
> In anticipation of the release, attorneys for the Boy Scouts conducted an informal review of 829 of the files, saying they sought to put the contents in perspective. The Scouts said the review found 175 instances in which the files prevented men who’d been banned for alleged abuse from reentering the program.
> The Times analyzed an overlapping, though broader and more recent, set of files, which were submitted in a California court case in 1992. Their contents vary but often include biographical information on the accused, witness statements, police reports, parent complaints, news clippings, and correspondence between local Boy Scout officials and national headquarters.
> The accounts that emerge are often incomplete. But the Scouts ultimately deemed the allegations sufficiently credible to expel the suspected abusers.
> Today, the Boy Scouts of America says it continues to use the confidential files as part of its efforts to prevent child abuse. In recent decades, it has added other protective measures. In 1988, for instance, Scouting did away with probation; its policy now is to expel anyone suspected in “good faith” of abuse. In 2008, criminal background checks were required on all volunteers, and in 2010 the organization required all suspected abuse to be reported to law enforcement.
> The extent to which these measures have succeeded is impossible to gauge: The Scouts continue to fight in court against the release of more recent files.
> __________________________________________
>
> No real surprises here for anyone familiar with the problem:
>
> http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/19/21325
>
> http://ldssexchildabuse.blogspot.com/
>
> http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34213.htm
>
> For many, many more similar cases, Google: mormon "boy scouts" "sexual abuse"
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> <image014.jpg>
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>
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> <image016.jpg>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> <image017.jpg>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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> =======================================================
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> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> <image018.jpg>
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
> <image019.jpg>
>
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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> =======================================================
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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