[Vision2020] Local Chomos & Religion (was RE: Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says)

Thu Aug 9 12:11:05 PDT 2012

Amen, Joe.

Fortunately, those godless civil authorities in some states aren't nearly as
willing to factor faux religion & repentance into the picture when it comes
to public safety.  Check out:

http://www.co.stevens.wa.us/sheriff/sexofflist/sitler%2012-21%20thru%2027th.
pdf

Note the date (just five months ago) and their assessment of Sitler's risk
to reoffend:

"Sitler scored as a High Risk to re-offend based on official documents,
reports and evaluations provided by the Washington State Department of
Corrections and the Idaho Department of Corrections."

How curious that the State of Washington assesses Sitler's dangerousness
far, far more seriously than did either Wilson or the sentencing Idaho
judge.

Oh, BTW, Paul, it isn't "just this one guy" that Wilson changed his "death
for chomos" position on -- there's another of Wilson's male believers (was
in Wilson's Greyfriar's "training" program) who sexually abused a young girl
under the age of 16 who was subsequently married off.

I think a much more accurate assessment of Wilson's supposed "death for
chomos" position is that he believes it only for child molesters who don't
attend his church/plant/mission/associated ventures & financially support
his various enterprises.  IOW, it's nothing more than a position of
convenience for Wilson.

Saundra

Moscow, ID

I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice
it always coincides with their own desires.

~ Susan B. Anthony

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Joe Campbell
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:30 AM
To: Paul Rumelhart
Cc: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says

Fair enough. But it is a very bad justification, and his is a dangerous view
to hold. He should be criticized for saying things like that or for
suggesting in any way that he is qualified to be a counselor about such
matters.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm not arguing his point, I'm just making a guess as to what I think he
would say to justify the apparent discrepancy between his earlier comments
and his support of this one guy.

Paul

  _____  

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 6:37 AM

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says

How is it relevant that Wilson is convinced that the man was cured? We're
talking about pedophilia. Do you know what the recidivism rate is? Do you
know that rate is for people who have "repented their sins" or do we have
any reason for thinking it is less than what it usually is? Supporting this
is taking religious freedom to a new level.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 7, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Making no judgments either way, but I bet if someone asked Doug he would say
that he is convinced that this one person repented his sins.  

Paul

On 08/07/2012 05:48 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:

Doug and Dale are like a lot of conservatives that I know.  They have rigid
view how people should behave and be punished based on their
misinterpretation of 'the word of God'.  And then someone that they know up
close and personal gets into a complicated situation and for that person,
this rigid punishment no longer applies for this particular instance.  I
remember Doug posting something on V2020 years ago about divorce was
blessing considering some of the bad marriages he had seen / counseled.  I
don't disagree with that.  Would Doug write a letter to the judge just
because the 'parents had lots of money which they showered' on him?  I doubt
it.  I don't think it was a tit for tat.  My guess would be that Doug knew
the parents up close and personal and he writes that he spent time
counseling the perp which he then got to know up close and personal and then
he accordingly wrote the letter to the judge.  Me personally, I think the
sentence should have been swift and severe, and after his incarceration (if
it ever ended), the perp ought to never be allowed around anyone under the
age of 18. Period.

  _____  

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:18:12 -0700
From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says

Tom,

Surely the Douglas Wilson who wrote the letter you displayed cannot be the
same Douglas Wilson who wrote 
on page 85 of Fidelity, explaining how pedophiles should be dealt with: "But
when we are dealing with young children who are abused by adults (pederasty,
child porn, etc.) the penalty for those guilt of the crime should be death"

Surely no one could be that corrupt, hypocritical, venial, and dishonest,
and at the same time call himself a pastor of the Christian faith.

w.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:

Or how about . . .

"Uh, how about a one-strike law.  Death doesn't seem too extreme for a
level-3 sex offender."

- Dale Courtney (August 3, 2005) 

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college
students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."

- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)

On Aug 6, 2012, at 5:09 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

Surely this can't be the same Douglas Wilson who once strongly and
unequivocally advocated the death penalty for child molesters like Steven
Sitler.  Surely no one could be that big of a hypocrite especially where
innocent children are involved.  Surely no decent, ethical, and empathetic
human would change his mind just because the pervert's parents had lots of
money which they showered on the writer of the letter.

w.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

A local enabler and protector?

Somebody like . . .

<image.jpeg>

<image.jpeg> 

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Aug 6, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

Doesn't he have a local enabler and protector?  Perhaps you have a photo of
him.

w.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:

Correction:

118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho), the address of the Moscow Police
Department, is listed as Mr. Sitler's "college address".

http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787
<http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985> &sz=985

Hmmm.

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Moscow Cares
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 4:05 PM
To: Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says

Courtesy of the Idaho State Police at:

http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787
<http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985> &sz=985

Description:
http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/photos/SITLES_8006854_04-05-2012.jpg

Mr. Sitler's address is 118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho) which
coincides with the address of the Moscow Police Department.  Anybody care to
inquire?

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Aug 6, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

I think I get it.  You wouldn't happen to have a recent photo, would you?
That would remove all doubt.

w.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

Something like . . . 

<image.jpeg>

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Aug 6, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

Gee Tom, I wonder who it could be.  Maybe you could post a link or two to
help me figure it out.  If there any links pointing to a letter describing
an incident with a two year old, that would maybe narrow it down a bit.

Puzzled,

w.

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

An anti-gay organization that shelters child abusers?

Gee, Wayne.  That sounds somewhat very familiar.

Nah!  Nothing like that could happen here in Moscow . . . huh.

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"If not us, who?

If not now, when?"

- Unknown

On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

 <http://www.spokesman.com/> Description:
http://media.spokesman.com/img/bits/logo-sr.png

August 6, 2012

Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says

Jason Felch
Los Angeles Times 

LOS ANGELES - For nearly a century, the Boy Scouts of America has relied on
a confidential blacklist known as the "perversion files" as a crucial line
of defense against sexual predators.
Scouting officials say they've used the files to prevent hundreds of men who
had been expelled for alleged sexual abuse from returning to the ranks.
They've fought hard in court to keep the records from public view, saying
confidentiality was needed to protect victims, witnesses and anyone falsely
accused.
"It is a fact that Scouts are safer because the barrier created by these
files is real," Scouts Chief Executive Robert Mazzuca said in video posted
on the organization's website in June.
That barrier, however, has been breached repeatedly.
A Los Angeles Times review of more than 1,200 files dating from 1970 to 1991
found more than 125 cases across the country in which men allegedly
continued to molest Scouts after the organization was first presented with
detailed allegations of abusive behavior.
Predators slipped back into the program by falsifying personal information
or skirting the registration process. Others were able to jump from troop to
troop around the country thanks to clerical errors, computer glitches or the
Scouts' failure to check the blacklist.
In some cases, officials failed to document reports of abuse in the first
place, letting offenders stay in the organization until new allegations
surfaced. In others, officials documented abuse but merely suspended the
accused leader or allowed him to continue working with boys while on
"probation."
In at least 50 cases, the Boy Scouts expelled suspected abusers, only to
discover later that they had re-entered the program and were accused of
molesting again. 
"Basically, there were no controls," said Bill Dworin, a retired Los Angeles
police expert on child sexual abuse who reviewed hundreds of the files as a
witness for an Oregon man abused by his troop leader in the 1980s.
In response to the Times' findings, the Scouts issued a statement that said
in part:
"The Boy Scouts of America believes even a single instance of abuse is
unacceptable, and we regret there have been times when the BSA's best
efforts to protect children were insufficient. For that we are very sorry
and extend our deepest sympathies to victims. . We are committed to the
ongoing enhancement of our program, in line with evolving best practices for
protecting youth."
The Scouts have maintained "ineligible volunteer" files in one form or
another since at least 1919 to keep track of men who failed to meet
Scouting's moral standards. Files that involved allegations of child sexual
abuse were dubbed "perversion files." A master list of those banned from
Scouting has been computerized since 1975 and is used to vet applicants for
volunteer and paid positions.
Only a select few in Scouting have access to the files, which are kept in 15
locked cabinets at Scout headquarters in Irving, Texas. But over the years,
hundreds of the files have been admitted as evidence, usually under seal, in
lawsuits by former Scouts alleging a pattern of abuse in the organization.
Many of the files will soon be made public as a result of an Oregon Supreme
Court decision. The court, in response to a petition by the Oregonian, the
Associated Press, the New York Times and other media organizations, ordered
the release of 1,247 files from 1965 to 1984 that had been admitted as
evidence, under seal, in the 2010 lawsuit.
In anticipation of the release, attorneys for the Boy Scouts conducted an
informal review of 829 of the files, saying they sought to put the contents
in perspective. The Scouts said the review found 175 instances in which the
files prevented men who'd been banned for alleged abuse from reentering the
program.
The Times analyzed an overlapping, though broader and more recent, set of
files, which were submitted in a California court case in 1992. Their
contents vary but often include biographical information on the accused,
witness statements, police reports, parent complaints, news clippings, and
correspondence between local Boy Scout officials and national headquarters.
The accounts that emerge are often incomplete. But the Scouts ultimately
deemed the allegations sufficiently credible to expel the suspected abusers.
Today, the Boy Scouts of America says it continues to use the confidential
files as part of its efforts to prevent child abuse. In recent decades, it
has added other protective measures. In 1988, for instance, Scouting did
away with probation; its policy now is to expel anyone suspected in "good
faith" of abuse. In 2008, criminal background checks were required on all
volunteers, and in 2010 the organization required all suspected abuse to be
reported to law enforcement.
The extent to which these measures have succeeded is impossible to gauge:
The Scouts continue to fight in court against the release of more recent
files.

__________________________________________

No real surprises here for anyone familiar with the problem:

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/19/21325

http://ldssexchildabuse.blogspot.com/

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34213.htm

For many, many more similar cases, Google: mormon "boy scouts" "sexual
abuse"

-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

Description: http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg

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art.deco.studios at gmail.com

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-- 
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art.deco.studios at gmail.com

Description: http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg

=======================================================
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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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art.deco.studios at gmail.com

Description: http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/> 
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

Description: http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/> 
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

-- 
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art.deco.studios at gmail.com

Description: http://users.moscow.com/waf/WP%20Fox%2001.jpg

======================================================= List services made
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/>
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 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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=======================================================

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