I'm not arguing his point, I'm just making a guess as to what I think he would say to justify the apparent discrepancy between his earlier comments and his support of this one guy.
Paul
________________________________
From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Cc: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
How is it relevant that Wilson is convinced that the man was cured? We're talking about pedophilia. Do you know what the recidivism rate is? Do you know that rate is for people who have "repented their sins" or do we have any reason for thinking it is less than what it usually is? Supporting this is taking religious freedom to a new level.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 7, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Making no judgments either way, but I bet if someone asked Doug he
would say that he is convinced that this one person repented his
sins.
>
>Paul
>
>On 08/07/2012 05:48 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:
>
>Doug and Dale are like a lot of conservatives that I know. They have rigid view how people should behave and be punished based on their misinterpretation of 'the word of God'. And then someone that they know up close and personal gets into a complicated situation and for that person, this rigid punishment no longer applies for this particular instance. I remember Doug posting something on V2020 years ago about divorce was blessing considering some of the bad marriages he had seen / counseled. I don't disagree with that. Would Doug write a letter to the judge just because the 'parents had lots of money which they showered' on him? I doubt it. I don't think it was a tit for tat. My guess would be that Doug knew the parents up close and personal and he writes that he spent time counseling the perp which he then got to know up close and personal and then he accordingly wrote the letter to the judge. Me personally, I think the sentence
should have been swift and severe, and after his incarceration (if it ever ended), the perp ought to never be allowed around anyone under the age of 18. Period.
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 19:18:12 -0700
>>From: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse,
report says
>>
>>Tom,
>>
>>Surely the Douglas Wilson who wrote the letter you displayed
cannot be the same Douglas Wilson who wrote
>>on page 85 of Fidelity, explaining how pedophiles should be dealt with: “But when we are dealing with young children who are abused by adults (pederasty, child porn, etc.) the penalty for those guilt of the crime should be death”
>>
>>Surely no one could be that corrupt, hypocritical, venial, and
dishonest, and at the same time call himself a pastor of the
Christian faith.
>>
>>w.
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>Or how about . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>"Uh, how about a one-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a level-3 sex offender."
>>>
>>>
>>>- Dale Courtney (August 3, 2005)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>
>>>
>>>Tom Hansen
>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>
>>>
>>>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
>>>
>>>
>>>- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)
>>>
>>>
>>>On Aug 6, 2012, at 5:09 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Surely this can't be the same Douglas Wilson who once strongly and unequivocally advocated the death penalty for child molesters like Steven Sitler. Surely no one could be that big of a hypocrite especially where innocent children are involved. Surely no decent, ethical, and empathetic human would change his mind just because the pervert's parents had lots of money which they showered on the writer of the letter.
>>>>
>>>>w.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>A local enabler and protector?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Somebody like . . .
>>>>><image.jpeg>
>>>>>
>>>>><image.jpeg>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"If not us, who?
>>>>>If not now, when?"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>- Unknown
>>>>>
>>>>>On Aug 6, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Art
Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Doesn't he have a local enabler and protector? Perhaps you have a photo of him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>w.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Correction:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho), the address of the Moscow Police Department, is listed as Mr. Sitler’s “college address”.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hmmm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Moscow Cares
>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 06, 2012 4:05 PM
>>>>>>>To: Art Deco
>>>>>>>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Courtesy of the Idaho State Police at:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://isp.idaho.gov/sor_id/SOR?id=6787&sz=985
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mr. Sitler's address is 118 East Fourth Street (Moscow, Idaho) which coincides with the address of the Moscow Police Department. Anybody care to inquire?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"If not us, who?
>>>>>>>If not now, when?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>- Unknown
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Aug 6,
2012, at 3:50
PM, Art Deco
<art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>I think I get it. You wouldn't happen to have a recent photo, would you? That would remove all doubt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>w.
>>>>>>>>On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>Something like . . .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><image.jpeg>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"If not us, who?
>>>>>>>>If not now, when?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>- Unknown
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Aug 6,
2012, at 12:52
PM, Art Deco
<art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>Gee Tom, I wonder who it could be. Maybe you could post a link or two to help me figure it out. If there any links pointing to a letter describing an incident with a two year old, that would maybe narrow it down a bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Puzzled,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>w.
>>>>>>>>>On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>An anti-gay organization that shelters child abusers?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Gee, Wayne. That sounds somewhat very familiar.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Nah! Nothing like that could happen here in Moscow . . . huh.
>>>>>>>>>Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Tom Hansen
>>>>>>>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"If not us, who?
>>>>>>>>>If not now, when?"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>- Unknown
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Aug 6,
2012, at 7:29
AM, Art Deco
<art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>August 6, 2012
>>>>>>>>>>Boy Scout files reveal repeat abuse, report says
>>>>>>>>>>Jason Felch
>>>>>>>>>>Los Angeles
Times
>>>>>>>>>>LOS ANGELES – For nearly a century, the Boy Scouts of America has relied on a confidential blacklist known as the “perversion files” as a crucial line of defense against sexual predators.
>>>>>>>>>>Scouting
officials say
they’ve used
the files to
prevent
hundreds of
men who had
been expelled
for alleged
sexual abuse
from returning
to the ranks.
They’ve fought
hard in court
to keep the
records from
public view,
saying
confidentiality
was needed to
protect
victims,
witnesses and
anyone
falsely accused.
>>>>>>>>>>“It is a fact
that Scouts
are safer
because the
barrier
created by
these files is
real,” Scouts
Chief
Executive
Robert Mazzuca
said in video
posted on the
organization’s
website
in June.
>>>>>>>>>>That barrier,
however, has
been
breached repeatedly.
>>>>>>>>>>A Los Angeles
Times review
of more than
1,200 files
dating from
1970 to 1991
found more
than 125 cases
across the
country in
which men
allegedly
continued to
molest Scouts
after the
organization
was first
presented with
detailed
allegations of
abusive behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>Predators
slipped back
into the
program by
falsifying
personal
information or
skirting the
registration
process.
Others were
able to jump
from troop to
troop around
the country
thanks to
clerical
errors,
computer
glitches or
the Scouts’
failure to
check
the blacklist.
>>>>>>>>>>In some cases,
officials
failed to
document
reports of
abuse in the
first place,
letting
offenders stay
in the
organization
until new
allegations
surfaced. In
others,
officials
documented
abuse but
merely
suspended the
accused leader
or allowed him
to continue
working with
boys while
on “probation.”
>>>>>>>>>>In at least 50
cases, the Boy
Scouts
expelled
suspected
abusers, only
to discover
later that
they had
re-entered the
program and
were accused
of
molesting again.
>>>>>>>>>>“Basically,
there were no
controls,”
said Bill
Dworin, a
retired Los
Angeles police
expert on
child sexual
abuse who
reviewed
hundreds of
the files as a
witness for an
Oregon man
abused by his
troop leader
in the 1980s.
>>>>>>>>>>In response to
the Times’
findings, the
Scouts issued
a statement
that said
in part:
>>>>>>>>>>“The Boy
Scouts of
America
believes even
a single
instance of
abuse is
unacceptable,
and we regret
there have
been times
when the BSA’s
best efforts
to protect
children were
insufficient.
For that we
are very sorry
and extend our
deepest
sympathies to
victims. … We
are committed
to the ongoing
enhancement of
our program,
in line with
evolving best
practices for
protecting youth.”
>>>>>>>>>>The Scouts
have
maintained
“ineligible
volunteer”
files in one
form or
another since
at least 1919
to keep track
of men who
failed to meet
Scouting’s
moral
standards.
Files that
involved
allegations of
child sexual
abuse were
dubbed
“perversion
files.” A
master list of
those banned
from Scouting
has been
computerized
since 1975 and
is used to vet
applicants for
volunteer and
paid positions.
>>>>>>>>>>Only a select
few in
Scouting have
access to the
files, which
are kept in 15
locked
cabinets at
Scout
headquarters
in Irving,
Texas. But
over the
years,
hundreds of
the files have
been admitted
as evidence,
usually under
seal, in
lawsuits by
former Scouts
alleging a
pattern of
abuse in
the organization.
>>>>>>>>>>Many of the
files will
soon be made
public as a
result of an
Oregon Supreme
Court
decision. The
court, in
response to a
petition by
the Oregonian,
the Associated
Press, the New
York Times and
other media
organizations,
ordered the
release of
1,247 files
from 1965 to
1984 that had
been admitted
as evidence,
under seal, in
the
2010 lawsuit.
>>>>>>>>>>In
anticipation
of the
release,
attorneys for
the Boy Scouts
conducted an
informal
review of 829
of the files,
saying they
sought to put
the contents
in
perspective.
The Scouts
said the
review found
175 instances
in which the
files
prevented men
who’d been
banned for
alleged abuse
from
reentering
the program.
>>>>>>>>>>The Times
analyzed an
overlapping,
though broader
and more
recent, set of
files, which
were submitted
in a
California
court case in
1992. Their
contents vary
but often
include
biographical
information on
the accused,
witness
statements,
police
reports,
parent
complaints,
news
clippings, and
correspondence
between local
Boy Scout
officials and
national headquarters.
>>>>>>>>>>The accounts
that emerge
are often
incomplete.
But the Scouts
ultimately
deemed the
allegations
sufficiently
credible to
expel the
suspected abusers.
>>>>>>>>>>Today, the Boy
Scouts of
America says
it continues
to use the
confidential
files as part
of its efforts
to prevent
child abuse.
In recent
decades, it
has added
other
protective
measures. In
1988, for
instance,
Scouting did
away with
probation; its
policy now is
to expel
anyone
suspected in
“good faith”
of abuse. In
2008, criminal
background
checks were
required on
all
volunteers,
and in 2010
the
organization
required all
suspected
abuse to be
reported to
law enforcement.
>>>>>>>>>>The extent to
which these
measures have
succeeded is
impossible to
gauge: The
Scouts
continue to
fight in court
against the
release of
more
recent files.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>__________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No real
surprises here
for anyone
familiar with
the problem:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/03/19/21325
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://ldssexchildabuse.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/15/34213.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>For many, many
more similar
cases, Google:
mormon "boy
scouts"
"sexual abuse"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>Art Deco
(Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>>>>>>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>>>>List services
made available
by First Step
Internet,
>>>>>>>>>>serving the
communities of
the Palouse
since 1994.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>Art Deco
(Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>>>>>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>>>List services
made available
by First Step
Internet,
>>>>>>>>>serving the
communities of
the Palouse
since 1994.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>Art Deco
(Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>>>>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>>>List services
made available
by First Step
Internet,
>>>>>>>>serving the
communities of
the Palouse
since 1994.
>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>=======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>=======================================================
>>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>=======================================================
>>
>>
>>--
>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>======================================================= List
services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>>
>>
>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>
=======================================================
>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>=======================================================
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