[Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from lmtribune.com

Mon May 16 14:21:30 PDT 2011

I'm not assuming anything! I'm sure if I starting making stuff up about
nursing, you'd spot it in a heartbeat. It's called "knowledge."

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Donovan Arnold <
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Why do you assume I haven't already?
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/16/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from lmtribune.com
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 6:10 AM
>
> Oh, I understand! Why don't you try to find a professor who would give this
> explanation! Good luck!
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Donovan Arnold <
> donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>   Joe,
>
> You asked a question with a faulty premise, I answered it using the most
> simplistic explanation I could in how God is not responsible.  It is clear
> based on your response you didn't understand what I was saying. Sorry you
> don't understand it. Perhaps you can take it to a fellow professor and have
> them explain it to you.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 5/15/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from lmtribune.com
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> >
> Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 7:06 AM
>
>
> You're turning my question into a statement. I'm not charging God with
> anything. I asked YOU a question.
>
> You agree that in a particular case of a drowning child, you would be
> required to help the victim. Are you depriving the victim of his free will
> by doing so? I don't see how. In this case, that suggestion seems silly. And
> clearly the child's life would not be rendered "meaningless" by your
> assistance. So I fail to see how anything below explains why God doesn't
> save every drowning child, why he doesn't save every victim of every natural
> disaster. Further, I don't think there is a rational explanation available.
>
> Again, my only point is that getting God off the hook, once questions about
> the existence of evil are raised, is no easy task. Talk about "free will"
> and "meaning" doesn't really help. It is more that, once the big
> philosophical guns come out people's eyes gloss over and they stop asking
> questions.
>
> This is exactly why I think religious matters should be kept out of the law
> (such as religious based laws against gay and lesbian marriage). The law
> should deal with matters of proof and evidence and no religious belief can
> be proven true. This applies to the beliefs of the atheist as well as the
> theist.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Donovan Arnold <
> donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>   "So how is an omnipotent being not responsible for every drowning?" Joe
> Campbell
>
> Nobody is morally or ethically responsible to prevent a bad event if their
> action knowingly would result in something worse.
>
> Your statement charges God with the personal responsibility to save
> every victim of human and natural events. The consequences of doing so would
> render every life meaningless if all free will and ability to disobey Him
> was taken away.
>
> The only way to do away with every victim of wrong doing would be to either
> completely control every action of every person, or to eliminate every
> human. So God would have to do more harm to do the good which you demand
> of Him, which would contradict your intent. Hence, the only way for good to
> always be done is to freely follow God.  This is the way I believe God
> designed it. Nobody is morally or ethically responsible to prevent a
> bad event if their action would knowingly result in something worse.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> --- On *Sat, 5/14/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from lmtribune.com
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> >
> Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 12:34 PM
>
>
>  So how is an omnipotent being not responsible for every drowning?
>
>
>
> On May 14, 2011, at 11:23 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
>     Joe,
>
> Considering that I am trained to save that baby, and I did nothing and
> refused, I would be charged with a felony. So, yes, very much responsible.
> Unless circumstances prevented me from attempting to do so.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> --- On *Sat, 5/14/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from lmtribune.com
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> Cc: <http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 6:48 AM
>
> Suppose a baby was drowning two feet from you and you do nothing to save
> it. Aren't you at least partly blameworthy for his death?
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Donovan Arnold <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>   Dr. Joe,
>
> It is a false dilemma to say it is either God's or the victim's fault in a
> death, injury, or economic ruin.
> It can be, and is almost always, the fault of humanity or group of humans.
> It takes a lot of people to decide, approve, build and move people into
> homes built in a flood plain, on a fault line, or at the base of a volcano
> long before a family actually moves into the house for whatever reason.
> Usually, it comes down to lots of people acting recklessly or selfishly.
> Either way it isn't God's fault and almost never 100% the fault of the
> victim. Few people would actually die from natural disasters if it were not
> for humanitiy's greed, carelessness, lack of respect for nature or not
> following God by loving your neighbor.
>
> I'm not trying to defend God from humanity's irrational judgement, as you
> jump to conclude, I am just trying to demonstrate to God that some of us are
> not so judgemential and irrational in are thinking as those that blame God
> for the consequences of humanity's greed which He clearly warned us against
> since the beginning.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 5/13/11, Joe Campbell <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from <http://lmtribune.com/>
> lmtribune.com
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> Cc: "Vision 2020" <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> >
> Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 4:01 PM
>
>
> The whole problem with this kind of answer is that it opens the gates for
> further questions. Try solving the problem of evil for tougher cases, like
> folks who lost their jobs in the recent recession. Or are you trying to say
> that ALL those who lost their jobs in the recession or who lost their lives
> in recent natural disasters "had it coming," given their foolish decisions
> about where to live, where to work, etc.? Did they ALL deserve to get fired?
> Did they ALL deserve to die? Has everyone who ever died a horrible death, or
> had something evil happen to them, deserved it? If I said the same thing
> about your "innocent children" I'm sure you'd be equally offended.
>
> I'm no atheist but it is safe to say that the "justification of evil"
> defense does not solve the problem of evil. It will not get God off the hook
> for everything. Free will only goes so far. Once you bring up these
> inadequate stories to try to defend God -- who needs no defense -- you just
> make the matter worse. Better to jump on the faith wagon BEFORE giving the
> inadequate defense.
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Donovan Arnold <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>   Wayne Fox quotes Ron Force,
>
> "Could they sue God if it rains?", and responds;
>
> "Based on all the misery this alleged all-powerful God has allegedly
> caused, this matter would be heard in Miniscule Claims Court."
>
> God sure is a bastard for building homes in places that have been flood
> plains for thousands of years and making people live there, and for putting
> tall easily collapsible buildings on million year old fault lines and lots
> of people walking in, around, and underneath them, and most of all, for not
> having murderers burst into flames for slaughtering innocent
> people while declaring it is in His name.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 5/12/11, Art Deco <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deco@moscow.com>
> deco at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deco@moscow.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Art Deco <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deco@moscow.com>
> deco at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deco@moscow.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from <http://lmtribune.com/>
> lmtribune.com
> To: "Vision 2020" <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> >
> Date: Thursday, May 12, 2011, 3:42 PM
>
> 
> Ron Force writes:
>
> "Could they sue God if it rains?"
> Based on all the misery this alleged all-powerful God has allegedly caused,
> this matter would be heard in Miniscule Claims Court.
>
> w.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ron Force<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rforce2003@yahoo.com>
> *To:* Tom Hansen<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com>;
> <http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from
> <http://lmtribune.com/>lmtribune.com
>
>  The separate college commencement ceremonies were done away with under
> President White, to address the non-attendance problem at the general. Now
> all students walk across the stage to pick up diplomas, PhDs get hoods, etc.
> so if Mom wants a picture, Junior (or Jane) has to get up early on Saturday.
> The colleges have receptions following general commencement (all indoors).
>
> Law still clings to their separate ceremony, which will be at 3, outdoors
> (Could they sue God if it rains)?
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Tom Hansen <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com>
> thansen at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=thansen@moscow.com>
> >
> *To:* Ron Force <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rforce2003@yahoo.com>
> rforce2003 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rforce2003@yahoo.com>>;
> " <http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>"
> < <http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> >
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:11 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from lmtribune.com
>
> There are two commencements . . . one general commencement . . . and a
> commencement for each college.
>
> If this grad class is similar to my grad class of '96, they'll be too dang
> hungover to attend the general commencement and (almost) sleep through the
> college commencement (especially those grads whose last names start with
> "A").
>
> Ah, yes, the thrill and pride of the graduation walk.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> UI '96
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 2:04 pm, Ron Force wrote:
> > I was told that several thousand plastic ponchos will be available.
> > Anyway, the severe weather isn't forecast until early afternoon, so the
> > speakers have an incentive to be brief...
> >
> > Â
> > Ron Force
> > Moscow Idaho USA
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sam Scripter <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MoscowSam@charter.net>
> MoscowSam at charter.net<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=MoscowSam@charter.net>
> >
> > To: Moscow Vision 2020 <<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>>;
> <http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=borderh@googlegroups.com>
> borderh at googlegroups.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=borderh@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 12:54 PM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Fwd: Breaking news from <http://lmtribune.com/>
> lmtribune.com
> >
> >
> > Breaking News from the Lewiston Tribune  Oh, my!
> >
> > This is terrible for UI Commencement, OUTDOORS!
> >
> > Does anyone on the Viz know if UI has a Plan B?
> >
> > Sam I am in Moscow . . .
> >
> >
> > Breaking News from the Lewiston Tribune
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> >
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>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com>
> =======================================================
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