[Vision2020] Saint Augustine: "Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue."
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Wed May 11 15:36:28 PDT 2011
Although I agree with you, Wayne . . .
It is virtually impossible to sufficiently argue every point and
counter-point of the megaload issue in a 3-hour meeting.
"You guys are simply big oil getting your way," is not going to be that
effective. Don't you think that ExxonMobil and Conoco have been hit with
that argument before?
Hit them hard with heavy local issues. That approach worked well during
last June's City Hall meeting.
OK?
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
On Wed, May 11, 2011 3:26 pm, Art Deco wrote:
> Bullshit!
>
> Silence about vitally important issues at these kinds of meetings amounts
> to tacit approval.
>
> w.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nancy Chaney
> To: Ted Moffett ; Donovan Arnold
> Cc: Art Deco ; Vision 2020 ; Craine Kit ; Sue Hovey ; Tom Hansen
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:01 PM
> Subject: RE: Saint Augustine: "Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays
> to virtue."
>
>
> All: Thank you for copying me on this exchange. All of the points are
> important, and reflect our common concern for this place, including our
> community and the planet.
>
> The point of tonight's meeting is to exchange information about a
> particular proposal, to be factually informed and to ask questions and
> state concerns for the best possible outcome.
>
> It is not within the City's authority to approve or deny permits for the
> ExonMobil loads. It is within ITD's authority to do so. I encourage
> attendees to give ITD the tools it needs to make a reasoned and
> defensible decision, including addressing whether transport comports
> with the standard of necessity (i.e. whether it is inescapable or
> compulsory), whether there are feasible alternatives, whether dimensions
> and weight have been reduced to the extent possible/practicable, public
> safety, access to public facilities, and to anticipate placing
> conditions on such aspects as allowable times of use, acceptable
> durations of delay and definition thereof, routes, indemnity for injury
> to persons or property, allowable conditions of operation (weather,
> darkness, traffic), and requirements for flagging, signing, and
> lighting, etc.
>
> The topic of dependence on fossil fuels and its environmental
> implications is vitally important, but cannot be resolved at tonight's
> meeting. I have scheduled a follow-up report and synopsis of tonight's
> meeting for the City Council meeting on Mon 5/16, and asked that Moscow
> Sustainable Environment Commission take on the task of developing
> recommendations based on public input and its own research for the City
> Council's consideration. There will be future opportunities for the
> public to address those larger concerns. It would be counterproductive
> to open that discussion tonight. Thank you for your consideration.
>
> Nancy J. Chaney, Mayor
> City of Moscow
> 206 E. 3rd St./P.O. Box 9203
> Moscow ID 83843
> Ph: (208) 883-7021
> www.ci.moscow.id.us
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Ted Moffett [starbliss at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:48 AM
> To: Donovan Arnold; Nancy Chaney
> Cc: Art Deco; Vision 2020; Craine Kit; Sue Hovey; Tom Hansen
> Subject: Saint Augustine: "Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to
> virtue."
>
> On 5/11/11, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Tom Hansen,
> >
> > Thanks for the history lesson. But that doesn't change any of the
> facts on
> > the ground. The meeting is still a farce because it won't be to
> discuss the
> > concerns of the Idaho and Moscow residents unless they are technical
> > questions about how the transportation will proceed.
>
> We are to accept that discussion of other so called non-local issues
> regarding the mega-loads are off limits, that this meeting is to focus
> only on the impacts to the city of the loads passing through the area.
> So, to use a worn out yet apt analogy, if the mega-loads were holding
> concentraton camp prisoners on their way to the gas chambers, as long
> as the impacts to the city were acceptable, the morality or economics
> etc. of the ultimate non-local goals of the mega-loads is not to be
> addressed.
>
> Actually, my analogy is not exactly correct, given that the ultimate
> consequences of the mega-loads will have profound direct local
> impacts, eventually. The oil sands development in Canada is a
> profound moral issue for everyone on this planet, impacting economics
> and the lives of millions of people. I'll let NASA climate scientist
> James Hansen clarify the issue, by quoting excerpts from his
> acceptance speech for the Sophie Prize, given the focus on Norway's
> Statoil investments in Canadian tar sands development:
>
> Speech by Sophie Prize winner Dr. James E. Hansen
>
> June 22th 2010
>
> http://www.sofieprisen.no/Articles/514.html
>
> Our planet today is close to climate tipping points. Ice is melting in
> the Arctic, on Greenland and Antarctica, and on mountain glaciers
> worldwide. Many species are stressed by environmental destruction and
> climate change. Continuing fossil fuel emissions, if unabated, will
> cause sea level rise and species extinction accelerating out of
> humanity's control. Increasing atmospheric water vapor is already
> magnifying climate extremes, increasing overall precipitation, causing
> greater floods and stronger storms.
>
> But our governments have no intention of solving the fossil fuel and
> climate problem, as is easy to prove: the United States, Canadian and
> Norwegian governments are going right ahead developing the tar sands,
> which, if it is not halted, will make it impossible to stabilize
> climate. Our governments knowingly abdicate responsibility for young
> people and future generations. I have been disappointed in
> interactions with more than half a dozen nations. In the end, they
> offer only soothing words, "goals" for emission reductions at far off
> dates, while their actual deeds prevent stabilization of climate.
>
> The Sophie Prize provides a new opportunity to draw attention to the
> actions that are needed to stabilize climate. Norway may be the best
> place, with its history of environmentalism. I can imagine Norway
> standing tall among nations, taking real action to address climate
> change, drawing attention to the hypocrisy in the words and
> pseudo-actions of other nations.
>
> So I wrote a letter to the Prime Minister suggesting that the
> government, as the majority owner of Statoil, should intervene in
> planned tar sands development. I appreciate the polite response, by
> letter, from the Deputy Minister of Petroleum and Energy. The
> government position is that the tar sands investment is "a commercial
> decision", that the government should not interfere, and that a "vast
> majority in the Norwegian parliament" agree that this constitutes
> "good corporate governance". The Deputy Minister concluded his letter
> "I can however assure you that we will continue our offensive stance
> on climate change issues both at home and abroad".
>
> A Norwegian grandfather, upon reading the Deputy Minister's letter,
> quoted Saint Augustine: "Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to
> virtue."
>
> The Norwegian government's position is a staggering reaffirmation of
> the global situation: even the greenest governments find it too
> inconvenient to address the implication of scientific facts. Perhaps
> our governments are in the hip pocket of the fossil fuel industry –
> but that is not for science to say.
>
> What I can say from the science is this: the plans that governments,
> including Norway, are adopting spell disaster for young people and
> future generations. And we are running out of time.
>
> Stabilizing climate is a moral issue, a matter of intergenerational
> justice. Young people, and older people who support the young and the
> other species on the planet, must unite in demanding an effective
> approach that preserves our planet.
> ------------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
> >
> > In all fairness, Council President Krauss was correct that the
> > mega-loads were not Moscow's specific concern because at the time he
> said it
> > the loads were not scheduled to come through Moscow.
> >
> > The only thing people of Moscow are being offered is lip service and
> > information on how the mega-loads are going to come roaring through
> downtown
> > in the dead of night. Where is the meeting on how and what is being
> done to
> > prevent this from happening? Until that happens, people are just being
> > played with by the politicians, lawyers, and the big oil companies
> that fund
> > them.
> >
> > Remember Governor Cecil D. Andrus and how he blocked the Feds from
> entering
> > the state with nuclear waste?
> >
> > "I've got a state policeman and 15 of his friends, and all of them
> are
> > prepared to do what is necessary if that truck makes it inside the
> borders
> > of this state."
> > http://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/08/us/idaho-governor-blocks-shipments-of-atom-waste-to-us-dump-site.html
> >
> > Too bad we don't have politicians with courage and a working moral
> compass
> > today that really look out for the people they represent! The rights
> of
> > local citizens and property owners, and our pristine irreplaceable
> > environment should not be ignored or put at risk of destruction in
> favor of
> > the most privileged billionaires that offer nothing in return for
> their
> > trespasses against us.
> >
> > Donovan Arnold
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 5/11/11, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
> > To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Art Deco"
> > <deco at moscow.com>, "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Craine Kit"
> > <kcraine at frontier.com>, "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 8:27 AM
> >
> >
> > A little history lesson here, Mr. Arnold . . .
> >
> > On June 28, 2010 the Idaho Transportation Department began what was
> > expected to be a series of community discussions in Moscow, Lewiston,
> and
> > Kamiah. ITD, Conoco, and ExxonMobil were under the impression that
> these
> > forums were to be conducted similar to a "high school career day"
> where
> > representatives from Conoco and ExxonMobil would present a short
> speech
> > from their respective displays. Shortly after Rep. Tom Trail arrived
> at
> > the meeting, was informed of the meeting's format, and had a
> "discussion"
> > with the ITD rep, the forum was re-formatted to include a Q&A portion.
> >
> > http://www.moscowcares.com/highway12/ITDmtg_062810.htm
> >
> > ----------------------
> >
> > On August 16, 2010, during the public commentary portion of the Moscow
> > City Council session, it was suggested that Moscow adopt a resolution
> > against the transporting of oversized loads on Highway 12.
> >
> > To which Moscow City Council President Wayne Krauss responded, on
> > September 6th, that the megaloads were none of Moscow's concern.
> >
> > http://www.moscowcares.com/highway12/MoscowCC_PubCom_Hwy12Res.htm
> >
> > ----------------------
> >
> > On April 4, 2011 the Idaho Transportation Department presented a
> report to
> > the Moscow City Council outlining US95 and I90 as alternate routes for
> a
> > portion of the Highway 12 megaloads. In strong suggestive language
> (using
> > terms like "right" and "ethics") Mayor Chaney asked that a public
> forum be
> > conducted in Moscow so that Moscow's citizens may be heard on this
> issue.
> >
> > http://www.moscowcares.com/040411_05_MegaloadsITD.htm
> >
> > ----------------------
> >
> > On April 18, 2011, during the Moscow City Council session, Mayor
> Chaney
> > presented an update concerning the potential for megaloads being
> > transported through Moscow on US95.
> >
> > http://www.moscowcares.com/041811_05_Megaloads.htm
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > So . . . you see, Mr. Arnold. In my opinion, where the people of
> Moscow
> > are concerned, Mayor Chaney has their back.
> >
> > Perhaps your anguish would be better aimed at Moscow City Council
> > President Wayne Krauss who publicly expressed that these megaloads are
> not
> > of Moscow's concern.
> >
> > Footnote, V-peeps: Although Rep. Tom Trail and Moscow City Council
> > President Wayne Krauss are both members of the Republican Party, there
> are
> > three words that clearly define the difference between them . . .
> >
> > CONCERN FOR CONSTITUENTS
> >
> > You decide who's got your back next time you step into the voting
> booth.
> >
> > Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2011 6:40 am, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> >> Sue,
> >> Â
> >> I don't think that Mayor Cheney believes that the other issues are
> not of
> >> concern. I just don't think the Mayor can restrict what people can
> ask,
> >> only what she and her invited speakers are willing to address. I
> think
> >> having a public forum simply to take only technical questions is
> rather
> >> pointless unless you are an engineering student. Most people won't
> have
> >> technical questions about the transport if explained the process in
> a
> >> well written article posted on the internet and published in the
> paper. I
> >> think the meeting is a farce if the real questions and concernsÂ
> people
> >> have are not even allowed to be asked.
> >> Â
> >> How about this question? What can the people do to stop these
> >> mega-transports?
> >> Â
> >> Donovan Arnold
> >>
> >> --- On Tue, 5/10/11, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
> >> To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>, "Vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>,
> >> "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Tom Hansen"
> >> <thansen at moscow.com>, "Craine Kit" <kcraine at frontier.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 11:45 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom, Donovan & All,
> >> Â
> >> I don’t see that framing the discussion around local issues is a
> signal
> >> that the Mayor has declared the rest to be ok. It seems to me the
> >> meeting was set to discuss impacts on our city. Those are the
> concerns
> >> which will determine whether they get a permit to transport the
> rigs.Â
> >> Obviously the other risks are not important to the Governor, ITD, and
> >> other folks or this wouldn’t have already happened in Idaho.  Â
> As a
> >> group of citizens concerned with this whole mess--how Exxon Mobile
> and
> >> other oil extractors are willing to do any damage to any environment,
> and
> >> any people simply to turn a profit—you point out a legitimate
> discussion
> >> topic for Moscow citizens, and I bet the mayor is willing to have
> that
> >> meeting, too. Why not ask her.Â
> >> Â
> >> Sue H.
> >>
> >>
> >> Â
> >>
> >> From: Art Deco
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 PM
> >> To: Vision 2020
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
> >> Â
> >>
> >> These megaloads are an extremely great deal for us!
> >> Â
> >> We can help kill lots of First Nations Canadians and others, cause
> the
> >> greatest environmental disaster in the history of North America, and
> help
> >> our sneakiest global competitors, the Chinese, who own the majority
> >> interests in the tar sands projects, to prosper even more at our
> expense.
> >> Â
> >> Paraphrasing Langston Hughes:Â Everyone benefits from these
> megaloads.
> >> Big oil gets to ride, we gets to watch them ride.
> >> Â
> >> w.
> >> Â
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Donovan Arnold
> >> To: Tom Hansen ; Craine Kit
> >> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:40 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
> >> Â
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My Questions;
> >> Â
> >> How did the Mayor acquire the ability to dictate what questions can
> an
> >> cannot be asked? I understand informing people they will only answer
> >> questions they feel are related to the transport of the megaloads,
> but to
> >> tell people what they can and cannot ask seems more like a scripted
> event
> >> than an actual Q&A session.
> >> Â
> >> Why should any people be required to allow these megaloads to be run
> >> through their towns when they are not designed to handle this kind
> >> transport? I don't think it would hurt Exxon Mobile financially to
> find
> >> another means of transporting their product without disrupting the
> quality
> >> of life, safety, and well being of others with lesser means than
> them.
> >> Â
> >> Donovan Arnold
> >> Â
> >> Â
> >> --- On Tue, 5/10/11, Craine Kit <kcraine at frontier.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Craine Kit <kcraine at frontier.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
> >> To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> >> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 9:47 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course, one must ask about the impact of the convoy of 30 or soÂ
> >> vehicles--which is said to take an hour to pass any particular point.
> >>
> >> Kit Craine
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 10, 2011, at 5:43 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> >>
> >>> Courtesy of today's (May 10, 2011) Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> OUR VIEW: Questions about semimegaloads in Moscow
> >>> Lee Rozen, for the editorial board
> >>> Posted on: Tuesday, May 10, 2011
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In the middle of about 60 nights this year, Imperial Oil/ExxonMobilÂ
> >>> wants
> >>> to send oil equipment convoys that are a block or so long, two
> lanesÂ
> >>> wide
> >>> and 16 feet tall rumbling and blinking north through downtown
> Moscow.
> >>>
> >>> The Korean-built equipment would head from Lewiston via U.S.
> HighwayÂ
> >>> 95,
> >>> Interstate 90 and Montana to the Kearl Oil Sands in Alberta. To getÂ
> >>> each
> >>> load from Lewiston to the Benewah County line should take one night
> >>> between 10 p.m. and 5:30 a.m. Officials promise traffic delays of
> noÂ
> >>> more
> >>> than 15 minutes.
> >>>
> >>> But the travel plan is under review, and neither Idaho nor Montana
> has
> >>> issued the necessary permits, or said when they will. The Moscow
> >>> semi-megaload route has been chosen because of the delays in getting
> >>> megaloads up the scenic U.S. Highway 12 corridor.
> >>>
> >>> ExxonMobil and Idaho Transportation Department officials haveÂ
> >>> deigned to
> >>> listen to Moscow's concerns about that at 7 p.m. Wednesday at theÂ
> >>> Hamilton
> >>> Indoor Recreation Center, 1724 E. F St.
> >>>
> >>> At that meeting. ITD and oil company officials will talk first, andÂ
> >>> then
> >>> take questions and comments from those who have signed in. Also,
> youÂ
> >>> can
> >>> email your thoughts to the ITD at comments at itd.idaho.gov, and the
> City
> >>> Council at skalasz at ci.moscow.id.us.
> >>>
> >>> Mayor Nancy Chaney apparently has declared the morality of
> ExxonMobil
> >>> profits, the Kearl Oil Sands project and fossil fuel consumption
> >>> off-limits for discussion Wednesday night.
> >>>
> >>> ExxonMobil made profits of $10.7 billion in first quarter 2011.
> SomeÂ
> >>> say
> >>> the Kearl Oil Sands project is destroying the Canadian environment
> and
> >>> killing residents of the area.
> >>>
> >>> Still, that leaves plenty of questions that need answers:
> >>>
> >>> Who makes sure delays are only 15 minutes? What happens if theyÂ
> >>> aren't?
> >>>
> >>> Will all cross-streets in Moscow be closed?
> >>>
> >>> Is it a delay if traffic keeps moving at 15 miles an hour behind the
> >>> convoy? (The ITD says it isn't a delay; federal rules say it is.)
> >>>
> >>> Who pays for moving power lines and stoplights out of the way?
> >>>
> >>> Will this semi-megaload convoy be likely to wake me up when it goesÂ
> >>> by my
> >>> house or apartment?
> >>>
> >>> Will you notify shippers - and the media so they can alert theÂ
> >>> public - in
> >>> advance of a convoy?
> >>>
> >>> Once permits are issued, can their terms be changed without notice?
> >>>
> >>> What if state police escorts get called to an emergency? Will thatÂ
> >>> stall
> >>> the convoy?
> >>>
> >>> What if Montana won't let the semi-megaloads in?
> >>>
> >>> Let's hope we hear some good answers.
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Seeya there, Moscow.
> >>>
> >>> Tom Hansen
> >>> Moscow, Idaho
> >>>
> >>> "This is the 'Mouse that Roared,' 'David and Goliath' and 'Avatar'
> all
> >>> rolled into one. We must remember that the thousands of citizensÂ
> >>> involved
> >>> in this effort to protect their personal and family safety, their
> >>> businesses and their lifestyles are confronting some of the largest
> >>> international corporations in the world."
> >>>
> >>> - Linwood Laughy
> >>>
> >>>
>
> > "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> > changeand the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >
> > - Unknown
> >
> >
> >=======================================================
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