[Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Wed May 11 10:56:04 PDT 2011
The only true failure is in NOT TRYING!!!
It looks to me that we have a choice. Either whimp out and stay home
tonight to piss and moan about how unfair everything is . . . or . . .
grow a pair and show up at the meeting tonight.
I know where I'll be!
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
On Wed, May 11, 2011 10:43 am, Andy Boyd wrote:
> Ultimately I don't think it matters what the city wants and the govt. and
> Exxon don't care if we say bring em through or not...
> Exxon seems to be telling Boise how it's going to go and they roll over
> like puppies to show subservience...
> Andy Boyd
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Betsy Dickow
> To: 'Andy Boyd'
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
>
>
> And the city will roll over and say please, oh please, send them
> through!
>
>
>
> Betsy
>
>
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Andy Boyd
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:27 AM
> To: Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
>
>
>
> The meeting is a farce because Exxon lies. Ie. can't make megaloads
> smaller.
>
> The meeting is a farce because the Govenor and ITD rubbber stamps
> anything Exxon wants.
>
> The meeting is a farce because Exxon's technical expertise was shown to
> be suspect when they sent the load on hwy 12 and had the power line
> issues (great job rubber stamping ITD).
>
> Don't like to be pesimistic but exxon gets what exxon wants and the rest
> is lip service.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy Boyd
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Donovan Arnold
>
> To: Art Deco ; Vision 2020 ; Craine Kit ; Sue Hovey ; Tom Hansen
>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:59 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in Moscow
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the history lesson. But that doesn't change any of
> the facts on the ground. The meeting is still a farce because it
> won't be to discuss the concerns of the Idaho and Moscow
> residents unless they are technical questions about how the
> transportation will proceed.
>
>
>
> In all fairness, Council President Krauss was correct that the
> mega-loads were not Moscow's specific concern because at the
> time he said it the loads were not scheduled to come through
> Moscow.
>
> The only thing people of Moscow are being offered is lip service
> and information on how the mega-loads are going to come roaring
> through downtown in the dead of night. Where is the meeting on
> how and what is being done to prevent this from happening? Until
> that happens, people are just being played with by the
> politicians, lawyers, and the big oil companies that fund them.
>
>
>
> Remember Governor Cecil D. Andrus and how he blocked the Feds
> from entering the state with nuclear waste?
>
>
>
> "I've got a state policeman and 15 of his friends, and all of
> them are prepared to do what is necessary if that truck makes
> it inside the borders of this state."
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/08/us/idaho-governor-blocks-shipments-of-atom-waste-to-us-dump-site.html
>
>
>
> Too bad we don't have politicians with courage and a working
> moral compass today that really look out for the people they
> represent! The rights of local citizens and property owners, and
> our pristine irreplaceable environment should not be ignored or
> put at risk of destruction in favor of the most privileged
> billionaires that offer nothing in return for their trespasses
> against us.
>
>
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/11/11, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in
> Moscow
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Art
> Deco" <deco at moscow.com>, "Vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Craine Kit" <kcraine at frontier.com>,
> "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
> Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2011, 8:27 AM
>
> A little history lesson here, Mr. Arnold . . .
>
> On June 28, 2010 the Idaho Transportation Department began
> what was
> expected to be a series of community discussions in Moscow,
> Lewiston, and
> Kamiah. ITD, Conoco, and ExxonMobil were under the impression
> that these
> forums were to be conducted similar to a "high school career
> day" where
> representatives from Conoco and ExxonMobil would present a
> short speech
> from their respective displays. Shortly after Rep. Tom Trail
> arrived at
> the meeting, was informed of the meeting's format, and had a
> "discussion"
> with the ITD rep, the forum was re-formatted to include a Q&A
> portion.
>
> http://www.moscowcares.com/highway12/ITDmtg_062810.htm
>
> ----------------------
>
> On August 16, 2010, during the public commentary portion of
> the Moscow
> City Council session, it was suggested that Moscow adopt a
> resolution
> against the transporting of oversized loads on Highway 12.
>
> To which Moscow City Council President Wayne Krauss responded,
> on
> September 6th, that the megaloads were none of Moscow's
> concern.
>
> http://www.moscowcares.com/highway12/MoscowCC_PubCom_Hwy12Res.htm
>
> ----------------------
>
> On April 4, 2011 the Idaho Transportation Department presented
> a report to
> the Moscow City Council outlining US95 and I90 as alternate
> routes for a
> portion of the Highway 12 megaloads. In strong suggestive
> language (using
> terms like "right" and "ethics") Mayor Chaney asked that a
> public forum be
> conducted in Moscow so that Moscow's citizens may be heard on
> this issue.
>
> http://www.moscowcares.com/040411_05_MegaloadsITD.htm
>
> ----------------------
>
> On April 18, 2011, during the Moscow City Council session,
> Mayor Chaney
> presented an update concerning the potential for megaloads
> being
> transported through Moscow on US95.
>
> http://www.moscowcares.com/041811_05_Megaloads.htm
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> So . . . you see, Mr. Arnold. In my opinion, where the people
> of Moscow
> are concerned, Mayor Chaney has their back.
>
> Perhaps your anguish would be better aimed at Moscow City
> Council
> President Wayne Krauss who publicly expressed that these
> megaloads are not
> of Moscow's concern.
>
> Footnote, V-peeps: Although Rep. Tom Trail and Moscow City
> Council
> President Wayne Krauss are both members of the Republican
> Party, there are
> three words that clearly define the difference between them .
> . .
>
> CONCERN FOR CONSTITUENTS
>
> You decide who's got your back next time you step into the
> voting booth.
>
> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 6:40 am, Donovan Arnold wrote:
> > Sue,
> > Â
> > I don't think that Mayor Cheney believes that the other
> issues are not of
> > concern. I just don't think the Mayor can restrict what
> people can ask,
> > only what she and her invited speakers are willing to
> address. I think
> > having a public forum simply to take only technical
> questions is rather
> > pointless unless you are an engineering student. Most people
> won't have
> > technical questions about the transport if explained the
> process in a
> > well written article posted on the internet and published in
> the paper. I
> > think the meeting is a farce if the real questions and
> concerns people
> > have are not even allowed to be asked.
> > Â
> > How about this question? What can the people do to stop
> these
> > mega-transports?
> > Â
> > Donovan Arnold
> >
> > --- On Tue, 5/10/11, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in
> Moscow
> > To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>, "Vision 2020"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com>,
> > "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Tom
> Hansen"
> > <thansen at moscow.com>, "Craine Kit" <kcraine at frontier.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 11:45 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom, Donovan & All,
> > Â
> > I don’t see that framing the discussion around local
> issues is a signal
> > that the Mayor has declared the rest to be ok. It seems
> to me the
> > meeting was set to discuss impacts on our city. Those are
> the concerns
> > which will determine whether they get a permit to transport
> the rigs.Â
> > Obviously the other risks are not important to the Governor,
> ITD, and
> > other folks or this wouldn’t have already happened in
> Idaho.   As a
> > group of citizens concerned with this whole mess--how Exxon
> Mobile and
> > other oil extractors are willing to do any damage to any
> environment, and
> > any people simply to turn a profitâ€â€you point out a
> legitimate discussion
> > topic for Moscow citizens, and I bet the mayor is willing to
> have that
> > meeting, too. Why not ask her.Â
> > Â
> > Sue H.
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> > From: Art Deco
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 PM
> > To: Vision 2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in
> Moscow
> > Â
> >
> > These megaloads are an extremely great deal for us!
> > Â
> > We can help kill lots of First Nations Canadians and others,
> cause the
> > greatest environmental disaster in the history of North
> America, and help
> > our sneakiest global competitors, the Chinese, who own the
> majority
> > interests in the tar sands projects, to prosper even more at
> our expense.
> > Â
> > Paraphrasing Langston Hughes:Â Everyone benefits from
> these megaloads.
> > Big oil gets to ride, we gets to watch them ride.
> > Â
> > w.
> > Â
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Donovan Arnold
> > To: Tom Hansen ; Craine Kit
> > Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in
> Moscow
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My Questions;
> > Â
> > How did the Mayor acquire the ability to dictate what
> questions can an
> > cannot be asked? I understand informing people they will
> only answer
> > questions they feel are related to the transport of the
> megaloads, but to
> > tell people what they can and cannot ask seems more like a
> scripted event
> > than an actual Q&A session.
> > Â
> > Why should any people be required to allow these megaloads
> to be run
> > through their towns when they are not designed to handle
> this kind
> > transport? I don't think it would hurt Exxon Mobile
> financially to find
> > another means of transporting their product without
> disrupting the quality
> > of life, safety, and well being of others with lesser means
> than them.
> > Â
> > Donovan Arnold
> > Â
> > Â
> > --- On Tue, 5/10/11, Craine Kit <kcraine at frontier.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Craine Kit <kcraine at frontier.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Questions About Semi-Megaloads in
> Moscow
> > To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2011, 9:47 AM
> >
> >
> > Of course, one must ask about the impact of the convoy of 30
> or soÂ
> > vehicles--which is said to take an hour to pass any
> particular point.
> >
> > Kit Craine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 10, 2011, at 5:43 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> >
> >> Courtesy of today's (May 10, 2011) Moscow-Pullman Daily
> News.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> OUR VIEW: Questions about semimegaloads in Moscow
> >> Lee Rozen, for the editorial board
> >> Posted on: Tuesday, May 10, 2011
> >>
> >>
> >> In the middle of about 60 nights this year, Imperial
> Oil/ExxonMobilÂ
> >> wants
> >> to send oil equipment convoys that are a block or so long,
> two lanesÂ
> >> wide
> >> and 16 feet tall rumbling and blinking north through
> downtown Moscow.
> >>
> >> The Korean-built equipment would head from Lewiston via
> U.S. HighwayÂ
> >> 95,
> >> Interstate 90 and Montana to the Kearl Oil Sands in
> Alberta. To getÂ
> >> each
> >> load from Lewiston to the Benewah County line should take
> one night
> >> between 10 p.m. and 5:30 a.m. Officials promise traffic
> delays of noÂ
> >> more
> >> than 15 minutes.
> >>
> >> But the travel plan is under review, and neither Idaho nor
> Montana has
> >> issued the necessary permits, or said when they will. The
> Moscow
> >> semi-megaload route has been chosen because of the delays
> in getting
> >> megaloads up the scenic U.S. Highway 12 corridor.
> >>
> >> ExxonMobil and Idaho Transportation Department officials
> haveÂ
> >> deigned to
> >> listen to Moscow's concerns about that at 7 p.m. Wednesday
> at theÂ
> >> Hamilton
> >> Indoor Recreation Center, 1724 E. F St.
> >>
> >> At that meeting. ITD and oil company officials will talk
> first, andÂ
> >> then
> >> take questions and comments from those who have signed in.
> Also, youÂ
> >> can
> >> email your thoughts to the ITD at comments at itd.idaho.gov,
> and the City
> >> Council at skalasz at ci.moscow.id.us.
> >>
> >> Mayor Nancy Chaney apparently has declared the morality of
> ExxonMobil
> >> profits, the Kearl Oil Sands project and fossil fuel
> consumption
> >> off-limits for discussion Wednesday night.
> >>
> >> ExxonMobil made profits of $10.7 billion in first quarter
> 2011. SomeÂ
> >> say
> >> the Kearl Oil Sands project is destroying the Canadian
> environment and
> >> killing residents of the area.
> >>
> >> Still, that leaves plenty of questions that need answers:
> >>
> >> Who makes sure delays are only 15 minutes? What happens if
> theyÂ
> >> aren't?
> >>
> >> Will all cross-streets in Moscow be closed?
> >>
> >> Is it a delay if traffic keeps moving at 15 miles an hour
> behind the
> >> convoy? (The ITD says it isn't a delay; federal rules say
> it is.)
> >>
> >> Who pays for moving power lines and stoplights out of the
> way?
> >>
> >> Will this semi-megaload convoy be likely to wake me up when
> it goesÂ
> >> by my
> >> house or apartment?
> >>
> >> Will you notify shippers - and the media so they can alert
> theÂ
> >> public - in
> >> advance of a convoy?
> >>
> >> Once permits are issued, can their terms be changed without
> notice?
> >>
> >> What if state police escorts get called to an emergency?
> Will thatÂ
> >> stall
> >> the convoy?
> >>
> >> What if Montana won't let the semi-megaloads in?
> >>
> >> Let's hope we hear some good answers.
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Seeya there, Moscow.
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >>
> >> "This is the 'Mouse that Roared,' 'David and Goliath' and
> 'Avatar' all
> >> rolled into one. We must remember that the thousands of
> citizensÂ
> >> involved
> >> in this effort to protect their personal and family safety,
> their
> >> businesses and their lifestyles are confronting some of the
> largest
> >> international corporations in the world."
> >>
> >> - Linwood Laughy
> >>
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> http://www.fsr.net
> >>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> =======================================================
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > http://www.fsr.net             Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > http://www.fsr.net             Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > http://www.fsr.net             Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.  Â
> >          http://www.fsr.net Â
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â
> > Â Â Â Â Â mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
>
>
> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects
> it to
> changeand the Realist adjusts his sails."
>
> - Unknown
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
changeand the Realist adjusts his sails."
- Unknown
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