[Vision2020] an opinion...everybody's got one

[Tom Hansen]

I agree with you, Bill.

Never complain about somebody or some people unless you read what they
have to say.

That is the primary reason why I, and I urge others, registered with Doug
Wilson's blog "Blog and Mablog" at:

Http://www.dougwils.com

Hopefully he will not boot me off, much like Dale Courtney's now defunct
blog "Right-Mind" did.

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho


On Thu, June 23, 2011 11:45 am, Bill London wrote:
> J-
> we disagree on two main points.
>
> First, you say Hank Johnston and Ed Iverson write "offensive" editorial
> columns for the Daily News.  I think Hank has become more rational and
> centrist in his views of late, and did not find his use of "hippie" to
> describe Moscow leftists as any big deal.  However, I would agree that
> Iverson was "offensive."  But what do you expect from an elder in a church
> that is anti-woman, anti-gay, and anti-science?  I thank the Daily News
> for
> having Iverson as a columnist since that gave all of us a chance to see
> how
> illogical and mean-spirited that belief structure is.  Reading Iverson's
> beliefs let us know what kind of drivel is filling the minds of Christ
> Church members and their kids.
>
> Second, why stop buying the Daily News?  Why kill the messenger?  Sure,
> confront the church, Iverson, or whoever -- but pull your head out of the
> sand and learn about the entire community here in Moscow.
>
> BL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Campbell
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:19 AM
> To: Bill London
> Cc: vision2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] an opinion...everybody's got one
>
> Oops! That last post was premature.
>
> As I was saying, this article is evidence in support of my point,
> which was not that Hank should be fired. I don’t really care if the
> Daily News fires him or not. I stopped buying the Daily News years
> ago. He is just the tip of their offensive iceberg. Even if they fired
> Hank they’d still have folks like Ed Iverson, who is much like Hank in
> his hatred of liberals and progressives but adds to it the belief that
> folks like Hank may be killed for their “sins.” (I can understand why
> Hank adopts him as a rhetorical role model – not!) My point was only
> that, in an area with two universities, the Daily News could do better
> than hire incompetent and offensive “writers” like Hank and Ed.
>
> For evidence that Hank is offensive, he writes: “In recent years, ‘The
> Viz’ has become a platform where a rather small but egotistical group
> of pompous academics bloviate regularly about whatever fires them up
> on any given day.” Actually, this is also evidence of his
> incompetence. Are the majority of folks who write on Vision 2020
> academics? No, they are not. Of course, what does the truth matter
> when you can appeal to well-used stereotypes to make your point?
>
> Then there is Hank’s inability to understand subtle distinctions. In
> his latest essay, at least 2 important distinctions are glossed over.
> First, there is a distinction between legal rights and moral
> obligations. Yes, Hank, the first amendment gives you the legal right
> to say whatever you wish; it does not follow that you should do so. It
> is wrong to be as offensive as you are. Period. Just as it is wrong to
> lie even though you often have the legal right to do so. But then I’ve
> said this before, Hank, and you didn’t get it the first time. Chances
> are you still don’t get it. As I said, you are incompetent.
>
> But the most important distinction that is glossed over is the one
> dealing with Hank’s original article. In the new article, Hank writes:
> “My position is that, regardless of what one thinks of the moral or
> ethical implications of the oil sands project in Canada, it is not up
> to Moscow to pass judgment and prevent legal, permitted loads from
> traveling through our town. If the loads are legally permitted to move
> then we can't change the rules just because we disagree with what the
> loads are or who they belong to. That is an issue for the state
> Legislature, not the city council, to take up.” Well if it is not up
> to Moscow to pass judgment and PREVENT the megaloads, since this is an
> issue for the state Legislature, then it is not up to Moscow to pass
> judgment and ALLOW the megaloads. It seems that Hank should be equally
> opposed to Steed’s motion, which invited ExxonMobil “to use our
> hotels,” etc. Who is Steed to issue such an invitation? This is a
> matter for the state Legislature! At least that’s what Hank would have
> said if he understood the implications of his own argument. But he
> didn’t understand the implications of his argument because he is
> incompetent.
>
> Of course, the question comes to mind: Why, in an area with 2
> universities, does the Daily News hire incompetent and offensive folks
> like Hank? The answer is that it has a radical conservative political
> agenda. That folks who think he deserves to be KILLED for his sexual
> “sins” have set the agenda is something that should worry Hank. But it
> doesn’t because he is apparently too much of an idiot to figure it
> out.
>
> With this last nasty post, I’m ending my participation in Vision 2020,
> at least for the next two years. I’ve taken on some additional duties
> that make my continued participation on this list-serve inappropriate.
> Besides, conservatives like to dish it out but they can’t take it.
> Perhaps with my departure, cowards 
 I mean, conservatives will come
> back to the V and things will be like they were in the old days. Good
> luck to all of you! I promise to lurk and you’ll always know how to
> find me: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>
> Best, Joe
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I'm beginning to think that the only thing Hank and I have in common is
>> that
>> we both laugh when I call him an "idiot." It is hard to know where to
>> begin.
>> Suffice to say that this is a nice bit of evidence of the very point
>> My dear but this article is a nice example of
>> "In recent years, 'The Viz' has become a platform where a rather small
>> but
>> egotistical group of pompous academics bloviate regularly about whatever
>> fires them up on any given day."
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, "Bill London" <london at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> Moscow-Pullman Daily News - DNews.com
>>
>>  Henry D. Johnston
>>
>> HIS VIEW: 'Visionaries' exercise freedom of speech
>>
>> June 21, 2011
>>
>> I believe the First Amendment, namely freedom of speech, applies to
>> everyone. One of the things I enjoy about being a columnist is the
>> interaction I get from readers either in person, through email or a
>> letter
>> to the editor. The readership of this paper is certainly diverse, and
>> the
>> feedback is usually cordial even when people are disagreeing with me.
>>
>> Except for my last column.
>>
>> Two weeks ago I sided with the Moscow City Council with regard to
>> ExxonMobil's proposed megaload shipments. My position is that,
>> regardless
>> of
>> what one thinks of the moral or ethical implications of the oil sands
>> project in Canada, it is not up to Moscow to pass judgment and prevent
>> legal, permitted loads from traveling through our town. If the loads are
>> legally permitted to move then we can't change the rules just because we
>> disagree with what the loads are or who they belong to. That is an issue
>> for
>> the state Legislature, not the city council, to take up.
>>
>> Anyway, I received emails from readers complimenting me on my position
>> and
>> also took in comments from a few dissenters. And then, as I sometimes
>> do,
>> I
>> checked in online to see what the Vision 2020 crowd was saying.
>>
>> If you're not up on early '90s technology, Vision 2020 is basically a
>> giant
>> email list called a "listserv" where people share their opinions. In
>> recent
>> years, "The Viz" has become a platform where a rather small but
>> egotistical
>> group of pompous academics bloviate regularly about whatever fires them
>> up
>> on any given day.
>>
>> Two weeks ago, I was their target.
>>
>> Except it wasn't my stance on megaloads that caused me to suffer the
>> wrath
>> of these keyboard commandos. Oddly enough it was the fact that they felt
>> I
>> painted the anti-megaload crowd with a giant brush when I called them
>> hippies.
>>
>> But guess what?
>>
>> Like it or not, Moscow does have a rather large and diverse population
>> of
>> people who could be defined as hippies, even if they don't fit the image
>> from the 1960s. And it is our diverse culture that makes Moscow unique
>> and,
>> sometimes to my chagrin, flavors our political climate to something
>> entirely
>> different from the rest of Idaho.
>>
>> At least that's my opinion, which is protected under the First
>> Amendment,
>> just like yours.
>>
>> But the enlightened crowd of "visionaries" didn't see it that way.
>>
>> One user called me an "offensive idiot," and another said my column was
>> a
>> "pathetic excuse for analysis." Some questioned why the Daily News can't
>> fire me and hire better writers and suggested because we live between
>> two
>> universities that all columnists should be college professors or
>> students,
>> somehow producing a better opinion page.
>>
>> One person went as far as to ask if anyone knew who I was, where I lived
>> or
>> what I did for a living. Why does it matter? Last I checked, I was Henry
>> Johnston who lives in Moscow, Idaho, not Soviet Russia.
>>
>> After reading all the vitriol from these self-proclaimed tolerant
>> liberals,
>> I was half expecting an angry mob to show up on my doorstep with torches
>> and
>> pitchforks, smelling of patchouli oil and singing "Kumbaya."
>>
>> I'm not sharing this experience because I want to point fingers and
>> whine
>> about someone picking on me. I'm doing so because even as nasty as some
>> of
>> the comments were, they and this column are perfect examples of free
>> speech
>> in action.
>>
>> Joe Reader has just as much right to call me an idiot as I do to call
>> him
>> a
>> hippie. It's all part of being an American and exercising the rights we
>> are
>> so very lucky to have.
>>
>> So I encourage everyone to continue to debate topics of every nature in
>> whatever venue we have available, be it on the opinion page, online or
>> in
>> person. I'm tough enough to handle it and will chuckle and smile when we
>> do
>> because, quite frankly, not doing so would be un-American.
>>
>> But, then again, that's just my opinion.
>>
>> Henry D. Johnston lives in Moscow. He can be reached via email at
>> moscowmoderate at gmail.com.
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>


"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Author Unknown