[Vision2020] A Resolution for the 112th Congress (after theTucson Tragedy)
Art Deco
deco at moscow.com
Thu Jan 13 08:13:30 PST 2011
Beliefs have behavioral consequences.
For emphasis, beliefs have behavioral consequences. That includes political, economic, social, religious, scientific, experience based inductions, philosophical, etc beliefs.
Beliefs are not the only factor that determine behavior, but they appear to be a significant determinant.
Not all beliefs are true; the probability of the truth of many beliefs are difficult to determine. Some beliefs are syntactical nonsense. To this point in history, methods of determining the truth outside an assumed context for values and super natural religious beliefs do not exist. This list also includes political philosophies and viewpoints.
Some beliefs have very high probabilities such as those found in the subjects of applied sciences such as physics, chemistry, engineering, etc.
Large parts of the science of psychology are not well confirmed, many areas do not have agreed upon answers at all. We do not know how to accurately predict the behavior of all individuals, or even the behavior of a given individual in certain contexts.
That does not mean we are totally without a clue.
Almost all of us experience/are bombarded with claims, rants, opinions, etc everyday. Some of these alter or affect our beliefs in some way. New beliefs are created, old ones weaken or strengthened.
Beliefs have different levels of intensity: intensity about their "truth" and intensity about how one could/should act given their "truth."
Since beliefs have behavioral consequences and various organizations and pundits spend time and much money trying to influence our beliefs in the hope of affecting our behavior, it would be a folly to say that what is being expressed today does not affect the behavior at least to some extent of almost all of us, including all but the incomprehensibly mentally ill. Hence, claims that what any individual said directly caused the shooting and/or claims that what some individual said had nothing to do with the shooting are equally folly.
The problem, and one which we have yet the knowledge to accurately predict for many instances and especially in the present instance, is to determine how a set of information/opinions/presentation of such affects a given individual.
It would be foolish then to believe that shooter at issue had not been influenced to some extent by current political rhetoric. What might be very difficult to determine is how, in what way, and how much this rhetoric influenced the behavior of the shooter, especially given his apparent mental instability/irrationality.
However, despite this difficulty and given the state of civilization at present, I think it important to at least try to answer some of these questions. In the present instance hopefully accurate information can be gathered and disbursed about the shooter.
Humankind is far from being a rational animal. We all act in accordance with partially emotionally based beliefs such as values. Most of us do not have the knowledge or take the time to think every issue of importance through carefully before we act.
Most advertising appeals and political appeals are designed to appeal more to our irrational/emotive tendencies and attempt to cleverly and emotionally persuade us to a greatly exaggerated positions of the truths/probabilities of certain claims than to appeal to our rational tendencies. This includes use the language of destruction either directly are metaphorically.
Political assaults and assignations are not new. There are considered by some to be a perfectly legitimate tool for changing the social/political order. There is little doubt that certain kinds of current political rhetoric reinforces or creates this view in some.
In a free society, there is no way to prevent the use of this kind of suggestively violent or anti-social rhetoric. Persuasion can be used to discourage such rhetoric. In my experience, however, such attempts to persuade do not work on those who act rhetorically and otherwise in violent and/or other anti-social ways in extreme ways, mentally healthy or not.
Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID 83843
waf at moscow.com
208 882-7975
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Crabtree
To: Joe Campbell
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the 112th Congress (after theTucson Tragedy)
I would have a sliver of respect for your point if you included so much as a
single example of rhetoric that was not from the the right. To endlessly
drone that "it's just as extreme to say that the volatile political
rhetoric of the radical right and the climate it created, and the Palin poster
in particular, had nothing to do with the shooting." and never once include
one of the multitude of examples that are just as prevalent on the left.
You are clearly trying to paint the maniac as, at least partially, a product
of the right and I'm having none of it so stop. Really, just stop.
g
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:56 PM
To: "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "the lockshop" <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the 112th Congress (after the Tucson Tragedy)
> What exactly is the moon beam claim? That a "nothing" claim is
> extreme? And please stop with the "wishful thinking" claim, which is
> just repeating the insulting comment that Tom posted from Rush, that
> Democrats wanted this to happen. Have you no decency? Really just
> stop.
>
> I'll repeat what I said, again, so it doesn't get lost in your
> continued attempts to distort my words: It is extreme to say Palin did
> it and just as extreme to say that the climate created by the rhetoric
> of the radical right had nothing to do with the shooting. The truth
> lies somewhere in between. Where? I don't know. I don't need evidence
> that he saw the map to support this claim, just to support the extreme
> position you keep trying to put in my mouth (which I do not hold).
>
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>> " I think it is just as extreme to say that the volatile political rhetoric
>> of the
>> radical right and the climate it created, and the Palin poster in
>> particular,
>> had nothing to do with the shooting. "
>>
>> I might be willing to accept this if there was even a shred of evidence
>> that the psychopath had seen the map or paid any attention to right
>> wing commentary. So far, the indications are that he didn't and your
>> claims appear to be made up of moon beams, fairy dust, and a heaping
>> shovel full of wishful thinking
>>
>> g
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:28 PM
>> To: "the lockshop" <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>
>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the 112th Congress (after the
>> Tucson Tragedy)
>>
>>> What is the uber left? What policies do they hold? What are they
>>> saying about Palin that is so egregious? Be specific. Use quotes.
>>>
>>> I know that I've made some claims about Palin and the shooter, but
>>> most of my claims were distorted by you and by Roger. I never blamed
>>> Palin, for instance. I certainly never claimed that she was
>>> responsible in any way. It would be an extreme claim to say that she
>>> was an accessory, which I don't believe and never said. But I think it
>>> is just as extreme to say that the volatile political rhetoric of the
>>> radical right and the climate it created, and the Palin poster in
>>> particular, had nothing to do with the shooting. In between the
>>> extreme all and nothing claims are a variety of more plausible views
>>> and I haven't said which of those I accept because I really don't know
>>> what to say about it.
>>>
>>> You say "Stop trying to tarnish your ideological 'enemies' with
>>> reasons for a event that just are not there." But this is such a joke
>>> it is not funny. I'm merely asking that Palin and others stop using a
>>> "bullseye" to target their political enemies, that the right stop
>>> referring to everyone on the left as a communist, that they stop the
>>> distortion and the over-the-top rhetoric. That we realize, as one V
>>> post put it, we are hovering around the same spot on the political
>>> compass. Again, there is nothing radical about any of this and it is
>>> precisely the very same request that you're making. So I find that
>>> ironic!
>>>
>>> Add to this that if I had political motives, what I'd do is keep my
>>> mouth shut wrt criticisms of Palin. What I'd try to do is get her to
>>> win the Republican nomination since she is one of handful of people
>>> that Obama has a chance of beating. She is simply not electable. I
>>> hope she does win the Republican nomination for that very reason (but
>>> she won't). So if I were playing political gamesmanship I'd keep quiet
>>> about her. I wouldn't criticize her. It makes no sense to criticize
>>> her if you're a Democrat and your only concern is to get Democrats
>>> elected. She is the best thing for the party in years. But I'm out of
>>> politics and have more broad social concerns, like the well being of
>>> our country. I'm using this as an opportunity to try to get the
>>> over-the-top rhetoric to stop.
>>>
>>> Lastly, wrt to your claims about "surveyor symbols" that is just plain
>>> stupid. I'm not saying you are stupid since I don't think for a minute
>>> that you believe that story. So the fact that I don't believe it can't
>>> be a slight against me. No one believes that story, and we're not all
>>> members of the uber left. Even the folks telling that story don't
>>> believe it.
>>>
>>> Here's a nice article on the issue.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2011/01/gunsights_or_surveyor_symbols.html
>>>
>>> At the end of this article there is a comment from Palin herself,
>>> tweeted after the election: "Remember months ago 'bullseye' icon used
>>> 2 target the 20 Obamacare-lovin' incumbent seats? We won 18 out of 20
>>> (90% success rate;T'aint bad)."
>>>
>>> Nothing about surveying here from the horses mouth. Try explaining
>>> this! Or better yet, try dropping this stupid fairytale altogether. NO
>>> one is buying it.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:25 PM, the lockshop <lockshop at pull.twcbc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> The symbol means here, this place, this location on the map. In other
>>>> words
>>>> this is a district where we would like a Republican to be in office. Sort
>>>> of
>>>> like X marks the spot. Why the uber left keeps trying to make this
>>>> tragedy
>>>> about Sarah and the right is really an unsavory mystery. The shooter was
>>>> crazy. Stop trying to tarnish your ideological "enemies" with reasons for
>>>> a
>>>> event that just are not there.
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Campbell"
>>>> <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <nickgier at roadrunner.com>
>>>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 4:46 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Resolution for the 112th Congress (after the
>>>> Tucson Tragedy)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another question: What possible meaning or significance could surveyor
>>>> symbols have? Why that symbol?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 4:26 PM, <nickgier at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A note to Roger and Gary:
>>>>>
>>>>> When Democrats start calling for "Second Amendment" solutions, then I
>>>>> will
>>>>> consider your losing battle to make Democrats more violent.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Palin meant those to be surveyor symbols, why did she accompany the
>>>>> map
>>>>> with the tweet "Don't Retreat, Reload"? Could it be that the webmaster
>>>>> couldn't find the cross-hairs symbol that he really intended and needed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> A RESOLUTION FOR THE 112TH CONGRESS
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, the Pima County Sheriff rightly said that violent rhetoric has
>>>>> consequences;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, abortion clinic doctors were marked with cross-hairs and “four
>>>>> doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort
>>>>> were
>>>>> killed”;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, GOP Senate candidate Sharon Angle and Tea Party leaders
>>>>> declared
>>>>> that a “Second Amendment” solution may be necessary for the Obama
>>>>> administration;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, in November of 2009 a person brought a handgun to one of now
>>>>> critically wounded Rep. Gabriel Giffords’ community gatherings;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, GOP Vice-Presidential candidate Sarah Palin targeted 22
>>>>> Democratic seats with a symbol that Giffords, a gun owner, took as
>>>>> cross-hairs (the map was followed by a tweet that said “Don’t Retreat,
>>>>> Reload”);
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, Gifford’s opponent Jesse Kelley asked supporters to "shoot a
>>>>> fully automatic M16" to "get on target" and help "remove Gabrielle
>>>>> Giffords";
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, on Fox Business News Sarah Palin offered praise for Kelly: "I
>>>>> don't feel worthy to lace his combat boots";
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, on January 12, 2011 four GOP leaders in Arizona, criticized as
>>>>> McCain supporters, resigned after violent threats from Tea Party
>>>>> activists;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, Giffords’ office was vandalized right after she voted for the
>>>>> Affordable Health Care Act;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, the U.S. lags other industrialized countries in mental health
>>>>> services, and Arizona ranks second to last in the U.S.;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, repeal of the Affordable Health Care Act has no chance of
>>>>> passing
>>>>> Congress;
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas, Americans, sometime by polls of 2-1, support major aspects of
>>>>> the
>>>>> Affordable Health Care Act;
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore Be it Resolved that the repeal of the Affordable Health Care
>>>>> Act
>>>>> be withdrawn;
>>>>>
>>>>> Be It Further Resolved that more funds be provided for mental health
>>>>> treatment;
>>>>>
>>>>> And May It Further Resolved that all Americans stop demonizing their
>>>>> political and religious opponents and refrain from using violent
>>>>> rhetoric
>>>>> about them.
>>>>>
>>>>> And Finally May It Be Resolved that on the eve of the MLK Holiday all
>>>>> Americans attempt to embrace the ethics of non-violence that Martin
>>>>> Luther
>>>>> King drew from Mahatma Gandhi and his own Christian faith.
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
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