[Vision2020] the shooting in Tucson

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Sun Jan 9 14:37:19 PST 2011 

There equally fair, by your lights. Are you saying I'm wrong? Then
you're equally wrong. Are you saying you have a right to say what you
do? Then I have a right. You have no basis for criticism given your
views. If we can let Palin say what she wants and judge that there is
no viable connection between her comments and any harm in the world,
then you should keep your mouth shut when I talk. There is no basis
for criticism. I've got a lot more that I can say by those standards
before you are free to criticize me. Be thankful I'm not her.

There is a difference though, by my lights. Find one person who is a
viable presidential candidate from the left who said or implied
anything that was related to what Hasan did. The point is that the
right explicitly describes the left as evil. Bouma continues to do it.
Young did it. Those were conservative CANDIDATES for local office.

I can point to things that Palin actually said, and Tom and I posted
something from her website, that are pretty damn close to what
happened. There is a pretty close connection between the crosshairs on
the Palin poster and the very women they represented actually being
shot: crosshairs, actually shot. That is a pretty close connection by
any reasonable set of standards. There is absolutely NO connection
between what any viable Democratic candidate for president said and
what Hasan did. NONE at all. There is a huge difference.

And you made the jump from anti-US to left wing. I didn't put THOSE
words in your mouth. That is absurd and over-the-top. But yet it was
apparently easy for you to make!

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> So I finally get around to logging on this afternoon and imagine my complete
> and utter surprise at having tripped the lists resident emotional booby
> trap. Who'd have thought?Apparently the "if" in my comment was missed along
> with the point. It's apparently offensive to refer to someone who is anti-US
> as left wing (not liberal) but is okey dokey to christen a mad man a product
> of conservative thought. Holy crap!
>
> "...if one is anti-US why not shoot him? Especially since we're in a culture
> war fighting for our very souls, fighting for God, fighting for freedom."
>
> This is a "logical extension" from someone who frequently reminds us that
> the pinnacle of logical thought resides right here amongst us? Holy crap!
>
> " too many of my family members have helped fight for our freedom to be
> labeled anti-US because I'm a member of another political party!"
>
> Well now that's just totally unrelated to anything I said, no wonder nobody
> wants to play with you!
>
> g
>
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:53 AM
> To: Gary Crabtree
> Cc: Reggie Holmquist ; Paul Rumelhart ; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] the shooting in Tucson
> Anti-US policy is an indication that someone is a liberal!?! Holy crap!
> How offensive is that? This is exactly my point. Conservatives get away with
> this kind of crap all the time, and nobody blinks an eye. That is the extent
> that the bs-rhetoric has gotten.
>
> And if one is anti-US why not shoot him? Especially since we're in a culture
> war fighting for our very souls, fighting for God, fighting for freedom.
> Shooting is just a logical extension of this insane rhetoric.
> Thanks for making the point, you jackass!
> Sorry for the language but too many of my family members have helped fight
> for our freedom to be labeled anti-US because I'm a member of another
> political party! I'm just sick of it.
> On Jan 8, 2011, at 10:51 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
> If it's fair to look at the gibberish on Jared Lee Lounger's web site and
> declare him a right wing whack job it should be equally fair to take Hasan's
> anti-war and anti-US policy viewpoints and declare him a liberal. The point
> I was trying to make by including Hasan is that assigning political motive
> to nut balls who are obviously sick in the head is to attempt to score
> political points by the weakest means possible. A horrible thing happened in
> Tucson today, maybe we should try to leave the ghoulish political blame game
> for another day.
>
> g
> From: Reggie Holmquist
> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 8:17 PM
> To: Gary Crabtree
> Cc: Joe Campbell ; Paul Rumelhart ; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] the shooting in Tucson
> Nidal Hasan was a liberal now?  Wow.  Come on now, Gary.  Check your facts!
>
> -Reggie
>
> On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>
>> James Jae Lee, John Patrick Bedell, and Nidal Hasan leap immediately to
>> mind.
>>
>> g
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 3:42 PM
>> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] the shooting in Tucson
>>
>> > Can shootings like this be found coming from both sides? Give an
>> > example of a left wing nut who did something similar within the last
>> > few years? Try to do it quickly.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Anti-government paranoia can be found on both sides of the spectrum.
>> >>  If
>> >> you go to his YouTube page (http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10),
>> >> you'll see that he's put both Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto
>> >> under "Books", as well as some others I wouldn't expect Tea Party
>> >> sympathizers to hold dear such as Animal Farm and Fahrenheit 451.
>> >>
>> >> They'll trot him out before the cameras soon enough, and he can let us
>> >> all know then.  And if he did do it because she voted for the Health
>> >> Care bill, then I throw my weight behind you right now in condemning
>> >> him
>> >> for that.  I just have a feeling that this one is going to be stranger
>> >> than it looks.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> keely emerinemix wrote:
>> >>> sorry -- I neglected to mention that the alleged gunman's video on You
>> >>> Tube echoes the same paranoid, angry, irrational anti-government stuff
>> >>> that Wilson, Courtney, and all of their ilk are as famous for as they
>> >>> are for their status as "Christian" ministers.  That got dropped when
>> >>> I proofread, but while he was clearly a lone wolf, or so it appears,
>> >>> he was, as Wilson would say, eagerly suckling at the teat of vicious
>> >>> right-wing extremism of the kind they promote.
>> >>>
>> >>> Enough said, but I think it needed to be.
>> >>>
>> >>> Keely
>> >>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> From: kjajmix1 at msn.com
>> >>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; godshatter at yahoo.com
>> >>> Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 14:41:01 -0800
>> >>> Subject: [Vision2020] the shooting in Tucson
>> >>>
>> >>> I've tried a couple of times to send this and it appears to not have
>> >>> gone through, but I want to answer Paul:
>> >>>
>> >>> Paul,
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you for your reasonable words.  It's better than I've gotten
>> >>> from Courtney on his Right-Mind.us blog.
>> >>>
>> >>> That said, I would remind you that she had been threatened before as a
>> >>> result of her involvement in the Obama healthcare bill.  She is not a
>> >>> liberal, but I believe that she is more progressive than her record
>> >>> shows, primarily because of the extraordinarily conservative district
>> >>> she represents -- one that's been rife with violent, bigoted rhetoric
>> >>> from the Right.  I heard a lot about her from  my father, and even two
>> >>> years ago he was aware that she and Rep. Grijalva (a friend of mine
>> >>> from way back in the day) were targets of unreasonable and irrational
>> >>> attacks from the media and from the entrenched Religious Right and
>> >>> nascent Tea Party folks.  This was political, and even though the
>> >>> video posted by the gunman says he's not a Christian, the instances of
>> >>> "Christian" right-wing extremism in this country is alarming, and
>> >>> increasing.
>> >>>
>> >>> I hold Wilson, Courtney, et al, responsible (do I have to say "and not
>> >>> accountable" again???) because, as ministers of the Gospel -- Courtney
>> >>> has been an elder in Christ Church and is a visible evangelical
>> >>> spokesman in Idaho conservative/Libertarian politics -- they have
>> >>> failed in their mission to preach and model peace, truth, justice, and
>> >>> basic kindness in their public pronouncements.  Worse, they have
>> >>> fanned the flames of a tinderbox-volatile sociopolitical,
>> >>> religiocultural climate, often with astonishing glee and carelessness,
>> >>> and are committed, judging from their own works, to calling simple
>> >>> political disagreement "tyranny" that must be resisted by all
>> >>> Christian  men.
>> >>>
>> >>> You're a good man, and if you disagree with me, you're not evil
>> >>> because of it.  But surely you see that this hasn't happened in a
>> >>> vacuum, and that a church leader who, like hundreds of them across the
>> >>> nation, laughs at the idea of Obama's assassination and perverts
>> >>> Scripture -- the "Obama Psalm" -- in spreading his hatred of the
>> >>> President is a man who, like his "tyranny" frothing pastor, deserves
>> >>> my scorn at minimum, and my indictment in all truth.
>> >>>
>> >>> Keely
>> >>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>> >>>
>> >>> Keely
>> >>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ======================================================= List services
>> >>> made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the
>> >>> Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>               http://www.fsr.net
>> >>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >               http://www.fsr.net
>> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
>
>
> --
> There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what
> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another
> theory which states that this has already happened.
>
> Douglas Adams
>

More information about the Vision2020 mailing list