[Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU

Fri Feb 25 12:19:27 PST 2011

Joe,

I think it would be rude to list people's names and their salaries. Don't you? I think saying anyone making over $70K on the Palouse is overpaid when the standard is $28K for an elementary teacher. I am glad you agree elementary teachers are underpaid as they are by just about any standard except the Idaho Legislature. 

However, if the standard is 28K starting for an elementary teacher, a professor is only equal to as much. If there is only enough taxpayer money to pay one elementary teacher 28K then some of the money from the overpaid university administrators and professors should be reduced to pay them. It is only fair as there is a limited amount of money to pay public employees and that it be as equitable as possible. Your overpay directly is proportionate to the unjust pay of an elementary teacher because it comes from the same source.

Yes, many professors do bring money into the institutions they work for but so does the Walmart checker and the waitress at Denny's.  If you want to use the standard of who brings in what, again, an elementary teacher saves the taxpayer millions more than a professor or university administrator. Nor do I think that university administrators or most professors reduce  tuition as you claim because administrators try to raise tuition and fees as much as they possibly can every year to pay for their huge salaries and bennies as well extra support staff and to attract more students to rip off. Better professors and the prestige that comes with national grants they bring only raises tuition and fees, not lowers it. Universities and colleges with fewer or no renowned professors charge less than those with. 

Further, let me point out that the 5% reduction in salary is only a gimmick at universities, because those of us in the know, know that "that most important people" at universities don't get salary reductions because they get promotions and "title reclassifications" so their salaries stay the same or are are actually increased. Elementary teachers unfortunately don't get this benifeit either, their salaries actually do go down 5%.

Donovan Arnold

--- On Fri, 2/25/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU
To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 4:44 AM

Certainly elementary teachers are underpaid. 

But is that how we determine whether college profs are overpaid? Whether or not they make more than someone who is underpaid? 

Many of the folk who make over 70K bring in substantive grant dollars, which keeps your tuition lower.

But Donovan you should be brave if you're going to be critical. Name names; be explicit. 

You are making vague, unsupported claims and in times like these that behavior is reckless.

Thanks for the kind words from everyone!

On Feb 25, 2011, at 12:09 AM, "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:

Agreed,  I think there is no harder job than being an elementary teacher.  Imagine recess duty during this weather, and that doesn’t even have anything to do with the real work. 

Congratulations, Joe. 

Sue

From: Donovan Arnold 
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:13 PM
To: Sue Hovey ; Joe Campbell 
Cc: Dan Carscallen ; Moscow Vision 2020 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU

Joe,

Congratulations on your promotion!

You ask who I think is overpaid, OK, fine. Anyone making over $70,000 a year at UI or WSU is overpaid. If you want a list of names you can look them yourself as they are available online. If an elementary teacher starts at $28 K so should the teachers at the UI and WSU. It is only fair. Elementary teachers have a harder job. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Thu, 2/24/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU
To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
Cc: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>, "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:26 PM

Donovan writes: "But this is not the case for many administrators and professors in our region who are paid often twice what they are worth." Who? Which administrators and professors in our region are paid twice what they are worth? You say "many." Name a few. You won't and can't.

This is a reckless, irresponsible comment. Go and make reckless comments about your own job but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't make them about mine. At least not while both local universities are in a financial crisis.

By the way, I found out today that I've been promoted to full Professor.

Best, Joe

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:

That’s what I was telling you.  Your phrase “government employees”  covers them all.  I’m not really in a position to determine whether many administrators and professors in our region are paid twice what they are worth but I will say the ones I know and work with are dedicated, hard working folks.  

Sue   

From: Donovan Arnold 
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:24 PM
To: Dan Carscallen ; Joe Campbell ; Sue Hovey 

Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU

Sue,

To the contrary, Sue, I am amazed at what some government employees are able to do with so few resources here in Idaho. Most people that work in the government are underpaid. But this is not the case for many administrators and professors in our region who are paid often twice what they are worth.

Elementary teachers, in general, and especially in Idaho, are the most underpaid people for what they do, the crap they put up with, and the amount of education they have acquired, and the value of their work. Two of my best friends are teachers. 

You don't have to preach to me how underpaid people are working with people with disabilities, I grew in a family that did just that. My job almost every morning is to take care of six people with disabilities.

I hope everything is going well in Hawaii, especially with that US Rep of yours : P. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:

From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>, "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 2:08 PM

Donovan, 
And, of course, this flip statement reflects your assumption that by nature government employees aren’t productive and should in every instance be able to do more.  I tell you, Donovan, the people who work with my disabled daughter are underpaid, overworked, and are being forced into situations for which they are unprepared.  And even so, in a few months almost 1/3rd or more may well be jobless.  It’s nice to have you back online again, but in this case you really do know better. You’ve  been there.   

Even in the private sector getting along to hold a job may well mean compromising ones ethics, harming other folks, not standing up in the face of grave error.  That’s what those ISU folks were trying to oppose. Even if you disagree with their intent your casting them as lazy and unproductive ignores the issue.

Sue H. 

From: Donovan Arnold 
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 4:2
To: Dan Carscallen ; Joe Campbell 
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU

The SBOE should just fire everyone if it wishes to start fresh. Kind of hard to do that if they keep the same President which is half the problem. Maybe if government employees knew, like the rest of us in the private sector, that if they cannot get along and be productive they will be out of a job, they would try harder to get things done.

Donovan Arnold

--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Statesman weighs in on ISU
To: "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com>
Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 9:59 PM

Oops! I feel a bit like Roseanne Roseannadana. Nevermind!

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:

Joe, 

Did you read the editorial? From what I gather, they agree with you

DC

On Feb 22, 2011, at 17:58, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

Great advice! Maybe they should just shut up and stick to the news!

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:

February 22, 2011
Our View: Memo to ISU faculty: Just shut up and teach
- Idaho StatesmanSeventy-six percent of Idaho State University’s faculty senators have a problem with Arthur Vailas. Earlier this month, they cast a no-confidence vote and urged their embattled president to step down. 
And 100 percent of State Board of Education members have a problem with the ISU faculty Senate. On Thursday, the board voted unanimously to disband the Senate — at Vailas’ urging.
Well, that’s one way to try to make a crisis disappear. Who needs allies on campus when you have a compliant State Board in your pocket?
The message, for faculty and staff at ISU and other campuses, could hardly be more clear. If you have a complaint or a criticism, the State Board doesn’t want to hear from you or help solve problems.
Of course, that’s not how the board spins it. “The impasse between the leadership of the senate group and the administration has reached a point where the prospect of any kind of progress was simply non-existent,” board President Richard Westerberg said. “It’s time to start over.”
Starting over? Sure. But only after the board made sure to give Vailas all the leverage, and marginalize his faculty critics.
Oh, there will still be a place for the faculty to have a say. Just on Vailas’ terms. The board ordered Vailas to set up an interim advisory structure and come back in April and propose what the board calls a “reconstituted faculty Senate and a new faculty governance model.”
How’s that for even-handed?
It’s remarkable that the State Board chose to choose sides, especially at this advanced stage of unrest. 
Vailas has been on the job since 2006, providing ample time for tensions to degenerate into grudges. The problems aren’t likely to just go away. It’s naive for the State Board to act as if that’s even a possibility.
Faculty members have aired some serious issues that warrant more active attention from the State Board — including complaints of closed-door budget decisions and high staff turnover.
These concerns should resonate under any circumstances — and especially during a funding crisis that requires university leaders to make tough budget decisions, explain policy publicly and clearly and get and keep buy-in from key faculty and staff.
“Sometimes we have to stand up and make our voices heard,” said ISU Faculty Senate chairman Phil Cole, according to the Associated Press. “The internal strife at ISU is killing ISU.”
Turns out Cole was worried over nothing. The State Board of Education has a foolproof plan for handling “internal strife.” Just tell all the naysayers to shut up.“Our View” is the editorial position of the Idaho Statesman. It is an unsigned opinion expressing the consensus of the Statesman’s editorial board. To comment on an editorial or suggest a topic, e-mail editorial at idahostatesman.com.

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List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
              http://www.fsr.net                       
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
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