[Vision2020] Defence, Deceit, and Deficits: Reagan'sUnnecessary $1 Trillion Military Build-Up

Thu Feb 17 21:30:59 PST 2011

What? Are we in a court room now where everything you say has to be supported with 18 links to notarized documentation or a video recording of the actual event taking place? I guess then the only one with the time, no job, and no life to back their opinions is Tom Hansen. 

Donovan Arnold

--- On Thu, 2/17/11, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Defence, Deceit, and Deficits: Reagan'sUnnecessary $1 Trillion Military Build-Up
To: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 9:16 PM

Roger,

I'm guessing that when Nick is actually in a debate with Wayne he will challenge him to support his statements.

All you are doing here is adding 'opinion' to anything you think is a negative statement about Reagan. If you won't support anything you say, why don't you just skip this exercise? You're not accomplishing anything here, just reinforcing what we could guess.

Sunil

> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:17:18 -0800
> From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> To: nickgier at roadrunner.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Defence, Deceit, and Deficits: Reagan'sUnnecessary $1 Trillion Military Build-Up
> 
> Wayne Fox recently said that he did not have the time to respond to something. Are you going to hold his feet to the fire? I agree with his sentiment. Anyone with a life outside of vision2020 would not have the time to refute everything that is posted here. Most of what appears on the vision is opinion with only a smattering of fact(my opinion). On your original post I will list what I think is an opinion after the statement in question.( My opinion.)
> -----Original message-----
> From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:43:30 -0800
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com, lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Defence, Deceit, and Deficits: Reagan'sUnnecessary $1 Trillion Military Build-Up
> 
> > Hi Roger,
> > 
> > I think I speak for many on this list who are tired of you claiming that your don't have time--or your computer is too slow--to do the necessary research to correct "alleged" errors. Just to keep the philosophers happy, I would like for you to separate untrue statements from fallacies, which for us mean mistakes in the form of argumentation not falsehoods.
> > 
> > I can back up the facts and claims in the column. I challenge you to take the time to point them out and correct them.
> > 
> > I will be eagerly awaiting your response and will not accept any silly excuses.
> > 
> > By the way, I'm sorry to all for the British spelling of "defence." At least the Queen would be proud.
> > 
> > Nick
> > 
> > 
> > ---- lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote: 
> > > There ar so many fallacies here that I do not have the time to try and answer them all. Suffice it to say that yes there was a large deficit under Reagan. He was as unhappy about it as anyone. He had a choice. He could either keep the debt down or have a massive military build up. He chose the latter. The Soviet Union could not keep up and irregardless of what what say it did hasten the brake up of the Soviet Union.
> > > Roger
> > > -----Original message-----
> > > From: nickgier at roadrunner.com
> > > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:47:28 -0800
> > > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: [Vision2020] Defence, Deceit, and Deficits: Reagan's Unnecessary $1 Trillion Military Build-Up
> > > 
> > > > Greetings:
> > > > 
> > > > This is a little late for Reagan's 100th BD, but the Egyptian Revolution intervened. Read my other articles on Reagan at www.home.roadrunner.com/~nickgier/reagan.htm and /RRMyths.htm
> > > > 
> > > > Next week's topic: George's Washington's Religion corrected because of Glen Beck's propaganda.
> > > > 
> > > > Nick
> > > > 
> > > > Defense, Deceit, and Deficits: Ronald Reagan’s Unnecessary $1 Trillion Military Build-Up
> > > > 
> > > > “Reagan’s ‘Team B’ analysis of the Soviet Union overwhelming the United States is recognized by intelligence professionals as a ludicrous fantasy.”
> (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > – Robert Parry, former Associated Press reporter
> > > > 
> > > > There has been a lot of hoopla surrounding the 100th birthday of Ronald Reagan. As a former two-term president, it is appropriate that he be duly honored. He was indeed a very effective speaker and he was able to make Americans feel good about themselves and their country.
> One of the goals of good communication, however, is to relay something truthful. (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > Many of the things Reagan said were false, and most everything said about his achievements is untrue or distorted. For instance, the president who did indeed cut taxes – principally for the rich – also raised taxes on the middle class in six of his eight years in office. A bill to protect social security was the largest tax increase in United States history 
> (opinion)
> As governor of California is was also responsible for a $1 billion one-year increase in that state.
> > > > 
> > > > A president who is praised for being tough turned tail and withdrew from Beirut after 220 Marines were murdered in their sleep. Even though his advisers encouraged him time and time again, Reagan refused to invade Panama a task that the first President George Bush did with relish. 
> > > > 
> > > > Many of America’s current problems began during the Reagan administration: (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > * The easing of regulations on financial institutions led to the savings and loan debacle and a loss of $88 billion in federal aid that was never repaid. (opinion)
> The Obama administration will end up making money from its successful attempts at saving the financial and automotive industries. (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > * When Reagan assumed office, the national debt that had accumulated over 200 years was $1 trillion. When he left office that number had tripled, and $7.1 trillion of the current $14 trillion debt was run up during the Reagan and two Bush administrations. ( Obama's debt is 13 trillion)
> > > > 
> > > > * The GOP mantra of “No New Taxes,” a concept touted by Reagan and a catchphrase coined by George H.W. Bush, his vice-president and successor, has meant that meager investment in infrastructure and human capital will leave the United States far behind other countries – China, India, Brazil, even Europe – by the middle of this century. (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > * In addition to Reagan’s tax cuts, $1 trillion in new defense expenditures also added to the national debt without an appreciable increase in our security. (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > After the successful negotiations with the Soviets during the Nixon and Carter years, the Reagan administration chose fear and misinformation to prolong the Cold War. One of the principal instigators was Paul Wolfowitz, the neo-conservative who helped George W. Bush deceive the American people about the threat posed by Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. Wolfowitz convinced Reagan that the CIA was not trustworthy, and that a separate “Team B” was necessary to get the “truth” out about Soviet superiority. (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > In his memoirs George F. Kennan, author of the “containment policy to stop Communism, writes that “the general effect of Cold War extremism was to delay rather than hasten the great change that overtook that country at the end of the 1980s.” (opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > During the celebration of the Reagan centenary much has been made about Reagan’s great challenge: “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” Four days after the Berlin Wall came down USA Today asked a cross-section of Americans whom they thought was responsible for the collapse of Communism. A surprising 43 percent said Mikhail Gorbachev and only 14 percent chose Ronald Reagan. For Germans who lived through it, the answer was a more decisive 70-2 percent. (their opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > No one “won” the Cold War because Gorbachev and Reagan agreed to end it peacefully and diplomatically. Reagan’s advisers were shocked when at the 1986 Reykjavik Summit in Iceland he proposed the total abolition of nuclear weapons. As Temple University historian Vladislav M. Zubok states: "It was Reagan the peacemaker, not the cold warrior, who made the greatest contribution to history." (opinion) It was Reagan's strong military stand that allowed him to me a peacemaker. ( my opinion)
> > > > 
> > > > Every president from Harry S. Truman to Reagan should get credit for our firm bipartisan stand against the Soviet Union, even though, tragically, both sides pursued policies that caused millions of unnecessary deaths in the Third World. Reagan stood at the end of the slow economic collapse of a failed ideology and had the good luck of dealing with a pragmatic Soviet leader 
> (opinion) I would agree that most presidents took a strong stand except for Carter. (my opinion) 
> 
> > > > Nonetheless, the military misadventures of Reagan and Bush II, based on fear and misinformation, have left at least $3 trillion for our descendants to pay. (I’m using the average of the estimated cost of the Iraq war.) That is about the same amount that Obama has added, but one-third was due to the recession, another third was a stimulus bill that saved 3 million jobs and the final third was the Bush-Obama plan to save the financial and automobile industries, which save another one million jobs. (opinion) See my next post( a forward from the Idaho GOP)
> > > > 
> > > > I’m sure that my grandchildren will view that as a good investment.
> > > > 
> > > > Nick Gier taught philosophy at the University of Idaho for 31 years.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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