[Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

Sat Dec 31 14:27:52 PST 2011

I'm sure history is littered with examples of politicians that promised
"one/two terms", but then changed their mind because they thought they
could do more good if they continued their service... (when, in fact,
they were exposed to a totally new level of comfort and pampering they
didn't want to give up).

But... it's also true that we continually vote for politicians based
upon their word and campaign promises... if voters got together and MADE
it their singular hot-button election issue for as long as it took,
eventually it would go through.  

Then we could return to our normally scheduled programming... 

Jay

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sue Hovey
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 1:31 PM
To: Sunil Ramalingam
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

Another issue that made his campaign so interesting is that he defeated
Speaker of the House, Tom Foley.  After the election any number of WA
voters said they voted for him assuming he would become the new Speaker.
He actually wrote a letter and gave it to the House Clerk promising not
to run and asking that he be denied his seat should he run and be
re-elected.  He withdrew the letter before he announced for re-election.

Sue H. 

From: Sunil Ramalingam <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>  

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 10:53 PM

Cc: vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>  

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

Jay,

Nethercutt first ran in '94, and embraced term limits, promising to only
run for three terms. Then he decided to change his mind and run for a
fourth term. And a fifth. I cited him not because I didn't like his
Republican politics (and I didn't) but because he was a weasel. 

I didn't like Helen Chenoweth's politics either (if you don't remember
her, she was elected at the same time as Nethercutt) and thought she was
a nut. She also pledged to serve no more than three terms. Here's an
excerpt from her Wikipedia entry: 'She later said that she regretted
limiting herself to three terms[7]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Chenoweth-Hage#cite_note-regret-6>
and called the whole concept of term limits
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_limits>  bad policy. She nonetheless
honored her pledge and did not run for reelection to a fourth term in 
2000 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_elections,_2000>
.'

So while I didn't like her politics, I respected her for keeping her
word. I don't agree with term limits, but if you're going to run for
office claiming that you do, and use it as an issue against your
opponent, you should keep your word. She did, and Nethercutt didn't.

Sunil

________________________________

Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:13:46 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

No, I don't recall George Nethercutt.  (I Googled him to see if I could
learn more... but nothing really stands out as far as his record).

Since (according to the interwebs) he was a Republican, I can only
assume that he rubbed left-leaning folks the wrong way in his
politics... perhaps under the guise of "term limits". 

(If I'm missing something major (like he became infamous for driving the
dodo bird to extinction or something), please send me more information
before the public lambasting begins).   I only moved back here to Moscow
in 2005 ... so anything local at the time surrounding him I probably
missed.

Of course, the Achille's Heel in the "term limits" plan is that we would
have to take a potential politician at their word...  I suppose my
larger point was that if we truly want a government that represents the
people, then we *all* should set aside whatever individual
beliefs/agendas that we have and focus on that single issue:  that a
representative cannot hold office for longer than X terms.  Congeal
around THAT issue and get it done... and then we can return to our
megaload riots and NASCAR races.

Jay

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 2:02 PM
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

Jay,

Remember George Nethercutt? He's a good reason not to apply your
standard. I think we'd better know all their positions before voting
them in because they say they're for term limits.

Sunil

________________________________

Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 11:02:49 -0800
From: jborden at datawedge.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com; deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

I've been a proponent of term limits for... well, forever.  We limit the
number of terms for our President, we need to limit the terms in our
House and Senate.   Having people in office for *decades* does nothing
but consolidate power and invite corruption.

If you *truly* want representation in America, we have to rotate through
our elected representatives... frequently.   

To do this, Americans are going to have to put aside all other opinions
until this is achieved.  Environment?  Abortion?  Taxes?  Left-handed
dentists?  All of these items need to be tabled, and the *one question*
that needs to be asked of a candidate is "Will you introduce and vote
for term limits?"  It needs to be the *only* reason to vote for a
candidate, and until the goal is accomplished, it needs to be the
*only*reason that a candidate is voted FOR.

THEN, when term limits come to fruition... when our elected
representatives cannot stay in office and continue to consolidate power
and control... then we can dust off our beliefs and take them to a
government that is as elastic as the population it represents.

Jay

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:47 AM
To: Art Deco
Cc: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

If he does what I think he'll do if he gets into office, he'll veto
anything that he finds to be unconstitutional.  This will, at the very
least, help stop abuses like the Patriot Act and increases in funding
for DHS.  Even if Congress can come up with enough votes to override the
veto, issues like this will suddenly be at the forefront of the
"national conversation" about what's going on in government.  For this
alone, I'd like to see him get in there.

Paul

On 12/30/2011 09:29 AM, Art Deco wrote: 

I agree with Rumelhart to the extent that things in this country [and
globally] are broken beyond the traditional politicians' ways of
repairing them.  We need bold, realistic, non-poll-driven leaders who
can convince us to re-evaluate our situation, offer feasible solutions,
and to convince us to make the inevitable selfless sacrifices necessary.

Though not traditional, I do not think Ron Paul is one of those leaders.

His view of the world and his positions are too simplistic for the
complex, diverse, globally competitive world we live in.  The latest
revelations have shown that his integrity does not rise above the
minimum standard.  The simplicity of his views are his main attraction
to many, but reality is the barricade to his views ever producing
workable solutions -- they would be even more disastrous than the messes
we now face.

In addition, some of his views are so abhorrent and/or crackpotty that
he would not be likely to convince congress to implement them in the
face of public opinion.

Having said that, I am unable to suggest any leader or group of leaders
that seem capable of fixing things.  The best I can hope for is that we
elect the lesser of the evils, at least by a little, to struggle on.

I'm glad I'm old and not likely to live too much longer.  I don't not
want to see the result of where the world is heading and the foolishness
of those in power resisting what needs to be done to change that
direction.

w.

From: Sunil Ramalingam <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>  

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 7:54 AM

Cc: vision 2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>  

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

Why doesn't the NYT address Paul's stances on foreign policy? On defense
spending?

Sunil

________________________________

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:38:24 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: deco at moscow.com
CC: Vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

I'm beginning to believe that Ron Paul is our only hope to stop the
downslope this country is on.  For example, the Transportation Security
Administration just got an extra $7.85 billion in funding for 2012,
including several hundred million dollars of funding for whole body
imagers.  This passed both the House and the Senate.  Does anyone here
actually believe that terrorism is a personally actionable danger?  Do
you change your behavior at all due to the threat?  Do you think all the
security theater is worth the money?

Ron Paul is about the only guy out there that votes against this kind of
crap.  Pretty much everybody else, (R) or (D), votes it in.  All they
seem to argue about is who is getting the pork.

As I see it, your choices are 1) the same old shit, but next year having
slipped even farther away from rationality or 2) this one bat-shit crazy
dude that might actually try to do something about it.

One thing I've noticed this year is that Ron Paul is actually getting
press.  There was a massive grassroots campaign for him the last couple
of elections, but nobody in the media would take him seriously as an
actual candidate.

The fact that they have started the smear campaign means that there is
actually a chance of getting him in office.

My advice?  Don't vote for the person that looks like the most
responsible Dad, or the guy that looks like he's someone you could have
a beer with, or the one that looks like a he's a successful lawyer.  All
of those guys are going to perpetuate the power grab that has been going
on for the last few decades.

Vote for the dude that puts the fear of God into the others.  Vote for
the one that will work to decrease their power, not the others that only
want to increase it for personal gain.

Sure, he's a bag of mixed nuts sometimes.  But he's the only one with
half a chance to shake things up a bit.

This should be a fun election year.

Paul

On 12/28/2011 11:35 AM, Art Deco wrote: 

<http://www.nytimes.com/>   <http://www.nytimes.com/>  
<http://www.nytimes.com/> 

*  Reprints
<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/opinion/mr-pauls-discredited-campaign
.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha211&pagewanted=print>  

________________________________

December 27, 2011

Mr. Paul's Discredited Campaign

Ron Paul long ago disqualified himself for the presidency by peddling
claptrap proposals like abolishing the Federal Reserve, returning to the
gold standard, cutting a third of the federal budget and all foreign aid
and opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964. 
Now, making things worse, he has failed to convincingly repudiate racist
remarks that were published under his name for years - or the
enthusiastic support he is getting from racist groups. 
Mr. Paul, a Republican congressman from Texas who is doing particularly
well in Iowa's precaucus polls, published several newsletters in the
'80s and '90s with names like the Ron Paul Survival Report and the Ron
Paul Political Report. The newsletters interspersed libertarian
political and investment commentary with racial bigotry, anti-Semitism
and far-right paranoia. 
Among other offensive statements, the newsletters said that 95 percent
of Washington's black males were criminals
<http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/12/22/v-print/133898/paul-walks-out-of-
interview-over.html> , and they described the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther
King Jr.'s birthday as "Hate Whitey Day." One 1993 article
<http://www.tnr.com/sites/default/files/January1993.pdf>  appeared under
a headline lamenting the country's "disappearing white majority." Other
articles suggested that the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service,
was responsible for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, praised the
Louisiana racist David Duke and accused some gay men with AIDS of 
deliberately spreading the disease
<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/politics/ron-paul-disowns-extremis
ts-views-but-doesnt-disavow-the-support.html?ref=politics&pagewanted=all
> , "perhaps out of a pathological hatred." 
A direct-mail ad
<http://mobile.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE7BM03320111223>  for
the newsletters from around 1993 warned of a "coming race war in our big
cities" and said there was a "federal-homosexual cover-up" to suppress
the impact of AIDS. 
Mr. Paul, who, beginning in 2008, has disavowed the articles and their
ideas, now says that most of them were written by others and that he was
unaware of their content. Even if that were the case, it suggests a
stupendous level of negligence that should force a reconsideration by
anyone considering entrusting him with the White House. 
When the newsletters first became an issue during his Congressional
campaigns in the 1990s, however, he did not deny writing some of them
<http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/12/26/fifteen_years_ago_ron_paul
_wasn_t_claiming_somebody_else_wrote_his_newsletters.html>  or knowing
about them. 
Mr. Paul has never given a full and detailed accounting of who wrote the
newsletters and what his role was in overseeing their publication. It's
especially important that he do so immediately. Those writings have
certainly not been forgotten by white supremacist and militia groups
that are promoting his candidacy in Iowa and in New Hampshire. 
The Times reported on Sunday
<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/politics/ron-paul-disowns-extremis
ts-views-but-doesnt-disavow-the-support.html>  that dozens of members of
the white nationalist Web site Stormfront are volunteering for the Paul
campaign, along with far-right militias, survivalists and anti-Zionist
groups. Don Black, the Stormfront director, said his members were drawn
to Mr. Paul by the newsletters and his positions against immigration and
the Fed (run by Jews, Mr. Black said), even if Mr. Paul were not himself
a white nationalist. 
Mr. Paul, saying he still hopes to "convert" these supporters to his
views, has refused to disavow them or to chase them out of his campaign.
If he does not do so, he will leave a lasting stain on his candidacy, on
the libertarian movement and, very possibly, on the Iowa caucuses. 

_____________________________________

Wayne A. Fox
wayne.a.fox at gmail.com

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