[Vision2020] 2011 Military Post of the Year

Wed Dec 28 14:49:29 PST 2011

Tom,

I'm trying to say this carefully, because I do honor the  sacrifice of those in the services. But have our fallen done so to 'provide and ensure freedom to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan?'

When was that ever a reason for these two awful wars? That's not why we invaded and occupied Iraq; it's not why we're propping up the Karzai government.

I think we would honor people more by ending these wars. 

Sunil

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:00:32 -0800
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 2011 Military Post of the Year

Agreed, Joe.
Well over 4,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines gave their final full measure to provide and ensure freedom to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.  And my heart goes out to those service members and their families.  But, what about ensuring freedoms to those among their own ranks?
Sidebar correction, Mr. Decker:  i have been on more funeral details (while serving at Fort Dix, NJ and Presidio of San Francisco, CA) than I care to recall.  At memorial services flags are raised then lowered to half-staff, not half mass.  "To the Colors" is played while the colors are raised to full staff, then lowered to the halfway point (half-staff), followed by the playing of Taps.  Just a correction.  No offense intended.
Seeya later, Moscow.
Tom HansenSpokane, Washington
"If not us, who?If not now, when?"
- Unknown

On Dec 28, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

Well you're entitled to your opinion and you won't find me bashing your candidate for mpoty! I agree with Tom that the military's acceptance of gays and lesbians is the most important military event this year. I just don't think there is much point in bashing folks just because they hold a different opinion about something so subjective as mpoty.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Joe,

I could care less about two people kissing, sexual orrientation asside. I am not a gay person myself, but have no problem with it. It's really none of my business. Please don't read too far into my statements. I just disagree that two female sailors is "military picture of the year". If the picture is "mpoty" than why? Shouldn't the numerous other pictures that depict overall feelings of these two shitty wars be considered. American flags being handed to children of their dead parents depict the war better that two people kissing.

I'm not sure how video games got brought up into the conversation either. I was stating that picture of the year to me is, attending Nicanor Amper IV funeral in SF this July. Nic died in Afghanistan July 5. I had the pleasure of serving with him in the Marines. The funeral had a broad spectrum of people. First Nic was an African American man married to a white women. He left behind two wonderful children. The crowd varied from the 10 Marines and army attendees to the freedom riders(those guys that keep that wacky church away), to a couple of gay couples, to some tough looking tattoed guys, to just about every type of people the USA has. In other words Americans. The funeral led by a huge cop escort and the freedom riders convoyed through SF to arrive at SF military memorial. The arrival to this cemetary was breathtaking to say the least. Thousands upon thousands of tightly and perfectly alligned tombstones layed upon the, in my estimate, 40-60 acre plot. The flag was half mass for Nic.

The picture that is burned into my memory is the two children tossing flowers onto Nic's casket as he was lowered into the ground. Not a dry eye around. 

I really could give two you know whats about people kissing. I care about the people being affected over there. That's it guys. No hidden agendas with me.

Take care

Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 21:01:26 -0800
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 2011 Military Post of the Year

In response to Tom Hansen's post, Matt Decker writes:
"What's the piont Mr. Hansen? That affection can't be displayed? Picture of the year for me is sitting next to the two crying children of their dad who just got blown in half by an RPG. What do I know though."

But I don't think that Tom Hansen's point had anything to do with NOT displaying affection. And I want to use your example in your response to make a broader point.

I know several persons who think that "first person shooter games" -- games in which players shoot other persons -- are immoral. Clearly you disagree. Suppose someone not only tried to make such games illegal but actually succeeded in making them illegal. What would your view about said persons be?

Now you might think that you've got popular opinion on your side but that is not obvious. And even if you do, it is beside the point.

The point is, Should your rights be held sway to popular opinion? Or should what games you play or who you marry be up to you?

I don't give a rip that you are disgusted by the gay life-style anymore than you give a rip that I'm disgusted by playing games in which kids kill their fathers. And I'm as gay as you are.

Tom's celebration was about the military finally catching on to the views of our founding fathers: state rights over individual rights go only so far and people are best to keep their morals to themselves.

Be disgusted. I have no problem with that. Just have the decency to not use the law to influence your own personal opinions.

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=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
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 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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