[Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll

Tue Aug 23 12:49:05 PDT 2011

Remind us again, Mr. Rumelhart -

How does Doug Wilson go about defending . . .

http://www.tomandrodna.com/CR_2005_02027

Seeya round town, Moscow.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Unknown

On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:19, "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com> wrote:

> It has been the so-called liberals on this site who have raised the loudest cry against child sexual abuse, spousal sexual abuse, and similar criminal abuses.  That such liberals are against such abhorrent practices doesn't mean that they are against freedom of sexual expression between consenting adults.
>  
> On the other hand, the conservatives, here and elsewhere, have been mostly mute on these child abuse subjects. 
>  
> In fact, Paul, you were one of the conservatives defending allowing admitted serial pedophiles such as Steven Sitler the absolute right to marry and to make children. The conservatives, for example, are more interested in railing against gays and gay marriage or at least questioning the value of allowing such marriages than taking a vigorous stand against child sexual molestation and exploitation.
>  
> The ultimate hypocrite, Douglas Wilson, has, in his now diminishing pseudo-ministry, been a screeching railer against pornography.  But all of a sudden faced with declining cult membership, interest in himself and crackpot quasi-theology, and most importantly to him, declining revenue, has resorted to the always successful formula "Sex Sells."  In doing so Wilson hypocritically endorses and promulgates the notion that Mark Driscoll's Blue Movies from Jesus visions are of important spiritual and doctrinal value to his Reformed community despite the fact that the possibility of any visions from Christ are in complete conflict with Wilson's avowed cessationist theological dogma.
>  
> Perhaps, you didn't understand what I wrote before:
>  
> Almost everyone has sexual fantasies of various kinds and intensities.  Mark Driscoll is entitled to his.  But for him to claim they are visions from God is delusional, and to broadcast and to celebrate them as such is beyond outré.  And when crackpots/con artists like Wilson who intentionally and for profit promulgate such delusions and celebrations, especially when contrary to their alleged theological beliefs in the name of their alleged God, one can easily see why Rose proclaims: "Worse than anything I could imagine."
>  
> Here is where I disagree with Rose's  "Worse than anything I could imagine."  From my point of view and state of knowledge, my opinion is there is nothing that I could imagine that Wilson would not do to further, to defend, or to protect himself, his sources of revenue, his unquenchable desire for attention and admiration, his desire for power and control, his will to establish a theocracy, etc.
>  
> Paul, you write:
>  
> "I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last night when I went to sleep."
>  
> Not such much.  Just another of your cheap rhetorical tricks of twisting what has been said to set up a bale of straw to attack.  But I agree in a way with the quote, except that "last night" should read "many years ago" and "Opposite Land" should read "Just to Be Contrary Land."
>  
>  
> w.
>  
> 
> From: Paul Rumelhart
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:47 AM
> To: Art Deco ; Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll
> 
> Odd.
> 
> Traditionally, it's the liberal community's job to defend all things sexual in nature from the ire of offended puritanical right-wing fundamentalists.
> 
> I must have crossed over into Opposite Land last night when I went to sleep.  How do you get back?  Find the portal and travel away from it?  Don't look for it at all and fall into it by mistake?
> 
> I hope I figure it out soon.  On the plus side, Facebook is a lot more private here and Microsoft is working hard to get Windows on 10% of user's desktops.
> 
> Paul
> 
> From: Art Deco <deco at moscow.com>
> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:14 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] No Guts, Misquotes, & Mark Driscoll
> 
> With all the buzz about the Christ Church Cult's scheduling of sexually obsessed so-called pastor Mark Driscoll who receives pornographic visions from Jesus, a couple of interest comments have passed almost unnoticed.
>  
> Vera White commented briefly about the latest Wilson-steps-on-his-dick-again snafu in last week's Ink.  [See complete Ink comment below].
>  
>  
> One paragraph is of special interest:
>  
> The INKster tried for two days to reach Wilson for comment, but was told he was busy with back-to-back meetings. She did however talk to Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained the conference might attract  "people from all over the world" and the agenda would include a Minister's Conference for men titled "The Puritan Five," and for females a session called "Dangerous Women."
>  
> First, Wilson, whose invitation to Driscoll and inept, illogical defense of that invitation has been widely criticized and lampooned in the Reformed Community of which Wilson is the alleged leader(at least for now), hasn't got the courage to discuss it very far outside his own cloistered circle. 
>  
> Second, a friend who is not on V2020 but reads the Ink asked me if it was possible that Mike Lawyer possibly misspoke or was misquoted in the above paragraph.  She wonders instead of "people from all over the world", what was really should have appeared was "perverts from all over the world."
>  
>  
> w.
> ____________________________
>  
> Vera White, The Ink, Moscow-Pullman Daily News
>  
> ....
> The INKster had never heard of Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle until the outraged postings started appearing on Vision2020 this week. What stirred up such solid citizens as Saundra Lund of Moscow is
> Nazarene Church Pastor Ed Eby's willingness to rent his Church for an appearance by Driscoll.
> "I cannot imagine that the community will be overly impressed that the Nazarene Church has rented itself out for a 'sexinar,' " Lund concluded.
> In Eby's defense, he rented out his church to Doug Wilson and Christ Church elders, sponsors of Driscoll's appearance next month at a conference titled "The Grace Agenda: All of Christ for All of Life for All The World."
> Driscoll has a blog on which in 2008 he answered such questions as: Can I perform anal sex on my wife? Can we use sex toys? My wife likes to masturbate me upon occasion and wants to know how to get better at it. What should she do?
> The INKster tried for two days to reach Wilson for comment, but was told he was busy with back-to-back meetings. She did however talk to Assistant Pastor Mike Lawyer Friday who explained the conference might attract "people from all over the world" and the agenda would include a Minister's Conference for men titled "The Puritan Five," and for females a session called "Dangerous Women."
> How well does Lawyer know Driscoll?
> "I've read some of his recent stuff," Lawyer said. "We feel his stuff is appropriate and like him as far as we know. We respect him and his ministry."
> The INKster tried to reach Eby but ended up talking to temporary church secretary Mary Jane  Bauer.
> "Pastor Eby doesn¹t want to talk about Driscoll right now as he says he is still researching the matter," said Bauer, who has been a member of the church for 30 years. "I've never heard of Driscoll, but we rent out the church to many different groups.²
> After the INKster explained a bit about Driscoll's style, Bauer said she "highly doubts she will  be attending."
> ...the blotter rests.
>  
> _______________________
> Wayne A. Fox
> wayne.a.fox at gmail.com
> 
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