[Vision2020] Donovan: Dale or Doug?

Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Fri Apr 1 06:49:31 PDT 2011


"Donovan" writes: "If it means anything, I did try on several occasions to
meet Joe at several venues we both attended, but it just never happened."

This is a strange comment because we HAVE met on several occasions. It
strikes me as odd that you don't remember. Well, actually it doesn't since
you weren't there, Donovan was there. It happened a few times. When and
where?

Lying is unproductive, too. So is the use of fallacies. So is the failure to
admit to using a fallacy when it is pointed out. So is engaging in a
discussion and then backing out when hard questions come up. If I could have
a conversation with you or your friend Glen Schwaller and be sure that by
the end you would not lie, not use a fallacy, and that the issue of my job
and whether or not I was qualified to perform it would not come up, then I
wouldn't really care who you were. But I can't, so it does make me wonder.
You can say what you want but I'm just looking for piece of mind.

I am not being facetious when I say that you are not Donovan, that it is
more probable that your name is "Dale" or "Doug" or that you previously
wrote on this blog under the name of "No Weatherman." This is a reflection
of my true beliefs. I just feel a little childlike having to suppress this
belief while you're invited to use whatever rhetorical trick or insult that
want. I think it is more productive for the communities sake if we find out
who you really are. So as long as you are going to tell lies, use fallacies,
and use insults, I'm going to keep trying to openly figure out who you are.
That is, as long as you persist in your form of unproductive behavior, I'll
persist in mine. If you want to play a childish tit-for-tat game and
question whether I have a PhD that's fine. You don't believe it, as you said
below. The difference is I believe that you are someone else. Whatever I'm
doing, I am not playing a cheap rhetorical game. I'm just telling you what I
think.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 1:23 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> wrote:

> Saundra,
>
> I bet me and Joe are a lot more alike than either of us cares to admit.
> Which is just another reason why I wouldn't care to meet him. :D
>
> Yes, I am not serious about proof of his PhD, I was being my usual
> facetious online self because of his demands for me proving I am in fact me,
> and others who they are; sounding like people wanting Obama to provide his
> birth certificate. It is really annoying and unproductive, we need to just
> take each other at our word, with the understanding that all of us are
> better people in life than our one dimensional cyber selves. If it means
> anything, I did try on several occasions to meet Joe at several venues we
> both attended, but it just never happened. I cannot image now having that
> kind of free time to be able to track down Joe when I cannot even track down
> all my relatives every time I am back up north. Maybe someday, in about a 1
> 1/2 years, when I am done with nursing school, I can return home and find
> Joe.
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 3/31/11, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Donovan: Dale or Doug?
> To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>, "'Joe Campbell'" <
> philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 11:47 PM
>
>  Donavan,
>
>
>
> I think you should take Joe up on his offer!  $100 is $100, and having met
> both of you, I think you’d have an enjoyable time, as would Joe.  I think
> you two have more similarities than you do differences, which can sometimes
> be lost in online only communications.
>
>
>
> Anyway, next time you’re up this direction, please give it some thought.
>
>
>
> BTW, you’re sounding kind of like a birther with demands that Joe give you
> proof of his PhD . . . just sayin’.  I could easily provide you with a dozen
> credible Web sites that list his qualifications, but I’m assuming you’re
> being somewhat facetious in your request, yes?
>
>
>
>
>
> Saundra Lund
>
> Moscow, ID
>
>
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
>
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
>
>
> ****** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2011 through life
> plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
> outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
> author.******
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Donovan Arnold
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:28 PM
> *To:* Joe Campbell
> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Donovan: Dale or Doug?
>
>
>
> Joe,
>
>
>
> Please provide a link. I don't think $100 is worth having lunch with you,
> at least not for me it isn't. I am sure plenty of your philosophy graduates
> would think $100 is lot of money because they are pretty unemployable in the
> real world unless they have an additional education in something else as
> well.
>
>
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> --- On *Thu, 3/31/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Donovan: Dale or Doug?
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>
> >
> Cc: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lfalen@turbonet.com>>,
> "vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> >
> Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 6:11 PM
>
> Do some research! You can prove it yourself (it's on the UA website for one
> thing).
>
>
>
> The funny thing is I'll give you $100 to have lunch with me.
>
>
>
> You won't do it! Proof enough that you're NOT Donovan.
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
>    Joe,
>
>
>
> I want proof that you actually earned a PhD?
>
>
>
> BTW, I vote for idiots all the time, because I vote for the person most
> likely to defeat the Republican. I would imagine that Republicans vote for
> idiots too precisely because Democrats tend to put idiots on the ballot as
> well, leaving an idiot Republican or an idiot Democratic situation to choose
> from.
>
>
>
> IMO, almost all people are bigots and hypocrites towards one group of
> people or another.
>
>
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> --- On *Thu, 3/31/11, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philosopher.joe@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Joe and Arrogance
> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lfalen@turbonet.com>
> >
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
> Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 2:54 PM
>
> Sorry -- last clarification.
>
> I didn't call ALL Republicans -- whom I disagree with -- "idiots." In fact,
> I explicitly said that I don't think all Republicans are idiots and
> mentioned a few by name that I didn't think were idiots.
>
> I asked why Republicans VOTE for idiots. The idiots are folks like Bush,
> Palin, and Gingrich. I called Gingrich an "idiot" because of his bigoted
> comments -- comments which you conveniently didn't include in this criticism
> -- not because he was a Republican. I asked a question: Why do so many
> Republicans vote for idiots -- folks who are either dumb as posts or obvious
> and clear bigots?
>
> I'm asking you, too, Roger. Why did you openly support Gresham Bouma in the
> last election, someone who is openly antagonistic toward Mormons? Why
> support Young, someone who was openly antagonistic toward folks on the left?
> Do you think it is OK to call Mormons "blasphemous"? Do you think that that
> kind of behavior is indicative of what our founding fathers meant by the
> right to the free exercise of religion? Do you think leaders should only
> cater to members of your own political party? That they can ignore the folks
> that they don't vote for them?
>
> But the fact is that you won't answer these questions. What you'll do is
> call me a "communist" and try to divert attention from the growing racism of
> your political party. And what I'll continue to do is point out the racism,
> even if it means putting up with your mean-spirited name calling.
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:52 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lfalen@turbonet.com>>
> wrote:
>
> It is amazing to me that some people on the left like joe, call everyone
> they disagree with idiots. I think it was Stalin that called the American
> left useful idiots. A friend of my aunt's on finding out I was a friend of
> Steve Symms said, "He can't be very bright can he". Some on the right think
> the same way. I do not know why people cannot disagree on the issues with
> out disparaging one another's intelligence.
> Roger
>
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