[Vision2020] Teabaggers
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Sat Mar 13 09:01:04 PST 2010
"Teabaggers" is a name, not an argument. Something must be an argument
before it can be an ad hominem argument. I keep making this point and
you don't seem to get it. Not sure I can make it any simpler than
this. Joe
On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> Prof Campbell,
>
> I know the definition of an an ad hominem attack. But that is not
> how your friend Wayne Price was using it and I used it under his
> understanding.
>
> I do make personal attacks, but only to people that personally have
> attacked me first or members of my family. When they throw punches
> at me, I will throw them back, and twice as hard--just as you do
> with with local lock shop keeper.
> If you get your buddies to not personally attack me, I will be happy
> to see your wager. But I am not going to idly stand on the sidelines
> while your friends attack me personally for my opinions while they
> throw accolades to you and your ideas which are mostly identical to
> their own and pretend it is a fair and even wager.
>
> You don't think teabaggers is an ad hominem attack?
>
> Your Friend,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 3/13/10, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Saturday, March 13, 2010, 3:16 PM
>
> Donovan,
>
> Not all personal attacks are ad hominem arguments.
>
> If I say "anyone who thinks that slavery is OK is an idiot" that is
> not an ad hominem attack. It is just an insult and a comment. First,
> ad hominem arguments are ARGUMENTS, not comments. Second, they are
> invalid arguments.
>
> I admit I'm insulting at times but I don't use fallacies. And you
> are not in any position to be lecturing people who are insulting.
> I'll tell you what, let's see who can go longer without insulting
> opponents: you or Me.
>
> Your friend, Joe
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Mr. Price,
>>
>> When Prof. Campbell, you, Rev. Keely, Sgt. Hamster, and Batman,
>> attacks me personally or someone else on the list or in our
>> community is that called an ad hominem attack too, or is that
>> definition reserved for only when I do it in response to someone
>> else doing it to me first?
>>
>> Donovan Arnold
>>
>> --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
>> To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>, "Moscow Vision
>> 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 5:50 PM
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> Arnie's continued use of ad hominem attacks that have no validity
>> are just proof that it doesn't take all kinds, we just have all
>> kinds.
>> The good thing is that once he makes these outrageous attacks and
>> fractured historical ideas, he shows himself for what he is.
>> The readers of his diatribes on here can make up their own minds as
>> to what that is.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>
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>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:24 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> What is pro-slavery about saying it is ALWAYS wrong to buy and
>>> KEEP slaves? You need to get away from the Wilson crap rhetoric.
>>> You are starting to believe your own lies! Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:08 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dr. Joe Campbell,
>>>>
>>>> Why are you Pro-Slavery? I don't understand. Don't you know
>>>> slavery is wrong.
>>>> I would think someone with a PhD would know that owning another
>>>> person is a grave ill against Humanity.
>>>>
>>>> It strikes me as a great concern that a Professor at a major
>>>> University would be defending the institution of Slavery.
>>>>
>>>> I understand your obsession and ability to relate to the past,
>>>> but slavery is not something I think you should embrace in any
>>>> form, shape or manner, much less want to bring back into modern
>>>> society.
>>>>
>>>> I pray you will reconsider your pro-slavery, and pro-
>>>> segregationist attitude, for the good your own life, and your
>>>> students at Washington State University.
>>>>
>>>> Your Friend,
>>>>
>>>> Donovan Arnold
>>>>
>>>> --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
>>>> To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 3:46 PM
>>>>
>>>> Nothing sounds mote bigoted than a defense if slavery!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Arnie believes that the Democrats were pro-segregation and the
>>>>> Republicans
>>>>> were anti-Vietnam back in the 60s and 70s." --Sgt. Hamster
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose the following Democrats and laws were figments of my
>>>>> imagination or perhaps The Hamster believes the KKK was not a
>>>>> racist movement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Crow Laws
>>>>> Senator Robert Byrd
>>>>> Hugo Black
>>>>> Senator Strom Thurmond
>>>>> Gov. George Corley Wallace, Jr.
>>>>> Senator Ernest Hollings
>>>>> Richard Russell, Jr.
>>>>> James Eastland
>>>>> John Stenni
>>>>> Jesse Helms
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, Democrats have been better at not being bigoted toward
>>>>> Blacks, Gays, Women, and minorities. But that is only a general
>>>>> rule, not applicable in every case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nixon and Ford ended the Vietnam War, both Republicans. JFK and
>>>>> Johnson escalated it. So indeed, the parties have switched
>>>>> positions since the 1960s. In fact, many people switched
>>>>> political parties after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your Friend,
>>>>>
>>>>> Donovan Arnold
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
>>>>> To: "Wayne Price" <bear at moscow.com>, "Moscow Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 10:06 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne -
>>>>>
>>>>> To put Arnie into appropriate perspective, here is one of his
>>>>> similarly
>>>>> profound quotes:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Both parties are completely different than they were in the
>>>>> 1960s and
>>>>> 1970s when Democrats were pro-segregation and Republicans were
>>>>> anti-war."
>>>>>
>>>>> - Donovan Arnold (March 5, 2010)
>>>>>
>>>>> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2010-March/068911.html
>>>>>
>>>>> That's right, Wayne.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arnie believes that the Democrats were pro-segregation and the
>>>>> Republicans
>>>>> were anti-Vietnam back in the 60s and 70s.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's as if President Johnson's Civil Rights Act of 1964 and
>>>>> President
>>>>> Nixon's 1968 campaign promise that we would be out of Vietnam by
>>>>> the end
>>>>> of 1969 (followed five years later with his "Withdrawal With
>>>>> Honor"
>>>>> concept of 1974) never happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Clearly Dr Donovan, you are correct and the Mount Vernon
>>>>> Society ( The
>>>>> > folks that OWN Mt. Vernon) are wrong. How could I have been so
>>>>> silly
>>>>> > to trust what they said and not you?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://www.mountvernon.org/learn/meet_george/index.cfm/ss/101/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "George Washington was born into a world in which slavery was
>>>>> > accepted. He became a slave owner when his father died in
>>>>> 1743. At the
>>>>> > age of eleven, he inherited ten slaves and 500 acres of land.
>>>>> When he
>>>>> > began farming Mount Vernon eleven years later, at the age of
>>>>> 22, he
>>>>> > had a work force of about 36 slaves. With his marriage to Martha
>>>>> > Custis in 1759, 20 of her slaves came to Mount Vernon. After
>>>>> their
>>>>> > marriage, Washington purchased even more slaves. The slave
>>>>> population
>>>>> > also increased because the slaves were marrying and raising
>>>>> their own
>>>>> > families. By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316
>>>>> slaves
>>>>> > living on the estate."
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Mar 11, 2010, at 1:28 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Rev. Keely, nobody is defending slavery. Let me say it twice
>>>>> so even
>>>>> >> you understand, NOBODY is defending slavery. I was just
>>>>> explaining
>>>>> >> inaccuracies in his (Mr. Price's) posts about Thomas Jefferson
>>>>> >> sleeping with his slaves and George Washington being a large
>>>>> slave
>>>>> >> owner. They are factually incorrect statements.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I forgot, accuracy of the facts was not a concern for you, just
>>>>> >> unfounded misguided displays of fake catty emotional outrage,
>>>>> Keely
>>>>> >> when slandering people on both the local and national level,
>>>>> living
>>>>> >> and dead.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Your Friend,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Donovan Arnold
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --- On Thu, 3/11/10, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>>>>> >> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
>>>>> >> To: donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com, garrettmc at verizon.net, "Chris
>>>>> >> Price" <bear at moscow.com>
>>>>> >> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> >> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 3:37 PM
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> This eloquent defense of slave-owning American Presidents is
>>>>> >> something less than heartening. It's almost as if we've heard
>>>>> >> similar arguments before from local folks interested in
>>>>> convincing
>>>>> >> us that, you know, on the whole, slavery wasn't, like, THAT
>>>>> bad,
>>>>> >> really.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> That George and Thomas are numbered among anti-slavery
>>>>> >> abolitionists, as appears to be the contention here, is as
>>>>> ludicrous
>>>>> >> as it is offensive. They may not have been the absolutely
>>>>> worst
>>>>> >> slaveholders ever, but I don't think either man's biographies
>>>>> are
>>>>> >> testimonies to their egalitarian, Christian, progressive
>>>>> morals.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Keely
>>>>> >> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:48:58 -0800
>>>>> >> From: donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
>>>>> >> To: garrettmc at verizon.net; bear at moscow.com
>>>>> >> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Wayne,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The tea was tipped overboard not because most people drank
>>>>> it, but
>>>>> >> because it denied revenue to the British. The average colonists
>>>>> >> didn't want to be independent from the British, but they were
>>>>> not
>>>>> >> happy under them either.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The British government prevented western expansion which
>>>>> seriously
>>>>> >> hindered the expansion of the economy and the well being of
>>>>> many
>>>>> >> western colonists and farmers.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thomas Jefferson bought slaves and freed them when they paid
>>>>> their
>>>>> >> price of purchase off. Many anti-slavery people did this.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thomas Jefferson did not sleep with his slaves, DNA tests
>>>>> from his
>>>>> >> know relatives prove this. His brother did sleep with Sally
>>>>> >> Hemmings, who was the half sister of his wife who passed away
>>>>> and
>>>>> >> looked a great deal like her. He cared for her greatly and
>>>>> she lived
>>>>> >> in his house because she was his wife's sister and didn't
>>>>> want her
>>>>> >> living as a common slave.
>>>>> >> George Washington had willed his slaves to be freed upon the
>>>>> death
>>>>> >> of his wife. Although she freed them earlier because she felt
>>>>> >> uncomfortable with all the slaves asking if she was dead yet (a
>>>>> >> little humor, but true). Little do people know, but George
>>>>> >> Washington did not own many slaves, his wife owned most them,
>>>>> she
>>>>> >> obtained from her previous husband, Daniel Parke Custis a
>>>>> wealthy
>>>>> >> plantation farmer, upon his death.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Your Friend,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Donovan Arnold
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> From: Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Teabaggers
>>>>> >> To: "Garrett Clevenger" <garrettmc at verizon.net>
>>>>> >> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> >> Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 12:52 AM
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Garrett,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> While the Tea Bag movement has hijacked the name, I'm not so
>>>>> sure
>>>>> >> they even realize what the 1770's movements were all about!
>>>>> >> The average colonist was happy being British!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> At that time in the colonies, TEA was not the drink of the
>>>>> average
>>>>> >> (read that as NOT wealthy) colonist. Rather they drank cider,
>>>>> >> because they could make
>>>>> >> it locally, and could afford it. Ever wonder why real tea
>>>>> chests of
>>>>> >> the period have a locks on them? Because it was expensive and
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> rich didn't want the servants to
>>>>> >> steal it! The original so called "patriots" were nothing
>>>>> more than
>>>>> >> a bunch of folks with money trying to avoid taxes. Sound
>>>>> familiar?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Same deal with the folks that shot at government troops on
>>>>> their way
>>>>> >> to and from Lexington and Concord to bring the GOVERNMENT
>>>>> owned arms
>>>>> >> and powder back
>>>>> >> to Boston, so the colonists/traitors/early american terrorists
>>>>> >> couldn't use it. Can you imagine today if that happened?
>>>>> Makes me
>>>>> >> wonder what would happen if the
>>>>> >> average citizens marched on the local National Guard armories
>>>>> so
>>>>> >> that they could prevent the government from using the arms!
>>>>> Think
>>>>> >> they would be considered
>>>>> >> "patriots"?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I have to laugh when I see the fractured history that George
>>>>> >> Nethercutt is trying to sell on TV..... Did the boy never
>>>>> read a
>>>>> >> history book! I laughed when I saw one about
>>>>> >> George Washington being anti-slavery! One of the richest slave
>>>>> >> OWNERS in Virginia at the time! And then there is that scion of
>>>>> >> colonial america Thomas Jefferson,
>>>>> >> he not only owned slaves, but would bed them too! Or was
>>>>> that just
>>>>> >> for the benefit of the slaves?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
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>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Mar 10, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Garrett Clevenger wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks, Joe, you summed up well what I've been thinking.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It is rather presumptious of the teabaggers to think their "tea
>>>>> >> party movement" is anything close to the real deal back when
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> colonies were fighting for independence.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The contemporary tea partiers are more like carpetbaggers in
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> regard, so it seems "teabagger" is a rather appropriate term.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I have no idea what the sexual definition of teabagger is and
>>>>> don't
>>>>> >> really care to so when I say "teabagger" I'm describing "tea
>>>>> party"
>>>>> >> people who are exploiting the patriotism of the Boston Tea
>>>>> Party.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> But are we really surprised that people who carry guns in the
>>>>> open
>>>>> >> to rallies and shout down those who disagree with them would be
>>>>> >> anything less than arrogant?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Teabaggers, indeed.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Garrett Clevenger
>>>>> >> =======================================================
>>>>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> >> =======================================================
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> =======================================================
>>>>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> >> =======================================================
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail
>>>>> Free. Sign
>>>>> >> up now.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > =======================================================
>>>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> > http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> > =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
>>>>> to change
>>>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>>>
>>>>> - Unknown
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>
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>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>>
>>> =======================================================
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>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>
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