[Vision2020] Roger: The Rich Don't Pay More Taxes

[nickgier at roadrunner.com]

Hi Roger. 
 
I find it very frustrating to have a debate with you, but I will respond to 
several of your points: 
 
Roger: Over the long haul no county with a state controlled economy has 
prospered as well as those where most of the businesses are in the hands of the 
private sector. 
 
Nick: I agree with you, but no Western European country has ever had a state 
controlled economy.  Your reference to the failure of Communism is simply a big 
fat red herring. 
 
Roger: There were in the past unfair labor practices. Thanks to Sammuel Gompers 
and other that has changed. 
 
Nick: You must have missed my recent columns on labor relations reform. Here are 
some excerpts: 
 
In 2004 the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service reported that 45 percent 
of employers have refused to sign contracts with their duly elected unions.  Why 
don't they respect the results?! 
 
After a study of the elections monitored by the National Labor Relations Board 
(NLRB), University of Oregon political science professor Gordon Lafer concluded 
that "the system is so corrupt that it doesn't remotely resemble the democratic 
process we think of when we use the term 'election.'" He means corruption on the 
part of employers not the hapless employees. 
 
Survey after survey show a majority of workers saying they would vote for a 
union, but only 7 percent of private employees are unionized.  There is 
something terribly wrong with this picture. 
 
Under current law employers can prohibit access of union organizers to the 
workplace and employers routinely set up one-on-one meetings of supervisors and 
employees.  Intimidation plain and simple. 
 
One in five employees openly advocating union representation are fired during 
the election process, and surveys of employees have indicated that they 
experienced twice as much coercion during elections as they do during the card 
signing process, which the Employee Free Choice Act will require unless 30 
percent of the bargaining unit objects. 
 
Roger: They and such federal entitles as fanny and freddy are responsible for 
the mess we are in today. 
 
Nick: the Right keeps trotting this one out even though it has been shot down 
time and time again. Fanny and Freddy issued very few of the bad loans. 
 
Roger: You criticize me for not providing documentation, but you just state that 
some areas with  tight gun control have low crime, with out giving any 
documentation. 
 
Nick: It is common knowledge that Western Europe has far lower crime rates than 
we do and they have very strict gun laws. 
 
Thanks for the dialouge, 
 
Nick 
 
> 
> -----Original message----- 
> From: nickgier at roadrunner.com 
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:56:01 -0800 
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com,  lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com 
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Roger: The Rich Don't Pay More Taxes 
> 
> > Hi Roger, 
> > 
> > Post after post you demonstrate that you don't know how to carry on an 
argument.  I offer solid data from Europe on taxes and the economy and you 
respond that my comparisons are not valid.  
> > 
> > You have to give reasons why they are not valid.  You don't win any points 
by simply saying that you don't accept my arguments.  You had an equally 
unsatisfactory response to my response that many countries have tough gun 
control and very low crime rates. 
> > 
> > American businesses set up on right-to-work states so that they will not 
have to people living wages, where their employees will not get decent health 
care, and where they will have to commute long distances because there is no 
public transportation. California will come back as soon as it solves its basic 
problem: citizen's initiatives that create chronic political instability. 
> > 
> > Thanks for the dialogue, 
> > 
> > Nick 
> > -