[Vision2020] Say What?

Fri Feb 5 20:10:05 PST 2010

Sue,

I'm pleased we agree on this if nothing else.

You are right that it is the person, not the career, that defines most people. However, I think that a career in modern law attracts far to many people of a lesser ethical standard.

Morris Dees was/is a person that became a lawyer AFTER the obtaining of his wealth, not for it. He made his money honestly, selling books. He decided with this wealth to fight the wicked in the world. This is a rare, is only case, I know. 

You have to admit, that there are far to many lawyers running the United States, they are way overpaid for what they have done, and have made justice unaffordable for most people at $200 an hour, and the amount of litigation that goes on has brought this country into bankruptcy while CEOs walk away multimillionaires while average families suffer without jobs.. 

Your Friend,

Donovan Arnold 

--- On Fri, 2/5/10, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:

From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>, "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 7:16 AM

Hey,  good for you.  and Tony Stewart was and is a wonderful human being, too.  Seems to me you are saying that lawyers you consider "good" in whatever context, are good, not because they are lawyers, but because they are good human beings.  I agree with you; it isn't the career that defines a person's morality and humaneness, it’s the individual himself or herself; but isn't that  true in all cases?  you've built yourself a conundrum and I'm done with it.  

Sue

From: Donovan Arnold 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:31 AM
To: Andreas Schou ; Tom Hansen ; Sue Hovey 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?

Sue,

I know who Morris Dees is. I was a member of the Human Rights Task Force through its North Idaho College College student group, called the NIC Human Equality Club, where I served as Vice-President in the club, our mentor was Tony Stewart, now an officer for the Task Force.

 I lived in Hayden for 8 years, about 2 miles from the Aryan Nations Compound. I drove past it every time I went to my best friends house. I avoided eating at the Owl Cafe because that restaurant reserved a table for Butler and his cronies.  

Morris Dees was brought in by the Human Rights Task Force to bring down the Aryan Nations by suing him into debt in a case involving a woman and her son by members of the Aryan Nations.

Morris Dees was successful in suing and getting the compound and destroying it. However, let us not forget, that it was the work of thousands of people like Tony Stewart and members of the Task Force that were fighting the Aryan Nations for decades, even when the Aryans were supported by a significant portion of the population, that enabled Dees to have the kind of success he did. 

I don't think his work, as good as it is, was comparable to that non-lawyers in the field fighting for human rights, and it didn't compare to the winning of enough battles to defeat a nation and giving the nation its independence. 

There are a few good people that happen to be lawyers, but there is no good lawyer, except for the ones that are dead, quit practicing, or work for free or about $40 an hour.

I only know of one practicing Moscow lawyer that I know and like personally, but I don't think that person is a good lawyer at all, and would not want them representing me.

Basically, I don't like the way modern lawyers think about people, justice, and the community. 

Your Friend,

Donovan Arnold 

--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:

From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>, "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 10:17 PM

And this tells me you don't know who Morris Dees is...and your words below also  tell me  you don't mean it in your emails where you acknowledge there are "a few good lawyers."  That's just a cowardly statement to give you an out when you deal with local attorneys on the Viz.  

Sue 

From: Donovan Arnold 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:46 AM
To: Andreas Schou ; Tom Hansen ; Sue Hovey 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?

Sue,

And yet the problem with your analogy is that points to the reality that even a traitor of Benedict's caliber has done more for the country than the best of men with a law degree.

Your Friend,

Donovan Arnold

--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:

From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com>, "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 6:20 AM

Well Donovan, you're at  it again with your generalizations tailor made to fit your rhetoric,  e.g.. colonels and colons.   Let's see now:  Benedict Arnold, the soldier, as opposed to Morris Dees, the trial lawyer.  To quote Donovan, "One is full of honor and the other?"   

Sue H. 

From: Donovan Arnold 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 1:32 PM
To: Andreas Schou ; Tom Hansen 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?

The problem with Hansen's analogy is that what a colonel has to say has some relevance and truth to it in the real world, where as the words of a trial lawyer usually don't. 

I hope Hansen will refrain from insulting men and women in uniform by reducing their relevancy to that of a trial lawyer. They deserve better than this. Soldiers put their lives on the line, they fight for something real.... They serve their country and others with honor. The polar opposite of most lawyers.

There is as much difference between a colonel and trial lawyer as there is between a colonel and a colon. One is full of honor the other full is full of, well, I will let you fill in the blank. 

Your Friend,

Donovan Arnold

--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 8:04 PM

“Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be
guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? I have more
responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago,
and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of
not knowing what I know. That Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably
saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible
to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you don't talk about at
parties, you don’t want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use
words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a
life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have
neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises
and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question
the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on
your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post.
Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!”

- Jack Nicholson, as Colonel Jessup in "A Few Good Men"

-----------------------------------------------------------------

It wouldn't be that big of an imaginary stretch to say that these comments
made by "Colonel Jessup" could, with just a few minor modifications, apply
to the duties and commitment of those in the legal profession.

I mean . . . I could just see Sunil "Colonel Jessup" Ramalingam addressing
the likes of Donovan Arnold and Roger Falen with these comments.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change
and the Realist adjusts his sails."

- Unknown

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