[Vision2020] Freedom of expression

[Darrell Keim]

This is correct, Nick.  They could conceivably try persuasion.  The
strongest statement the Chamber could make would be removal from Chamber
membership.  That would be very tough on the Chamber to do for potential
ideological and financial reasons.  A bit like cutting off your nose to
spite your face, since the Chamber is funded by the dues it gets from its
membership.  Losing the NSA membership would put a 4 figure hole in the
budget.

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Gier, Nicholas <NGIER at uidaho.edu> wrote:

>  Hi Paul,
>
> I was not at all suggesting that the Chamber of Commerce shut down the NSA
> website.  That of course would be un-constitutional.  But I was suggesting
> is that the Chamber should be mindful of the ads of any business or
> institution that might put the city in a bad light.  All that they would
> have would be the power of persuasion not coercion.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com on behalf of Paul Rumelhart
> Sent: Sun 12/12/2010 3:57 PM
> To: Joe Campbell
> Cc: Vision2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Freedom of expression
>
> I hate the concept of "hate speech" in law, and thus would like the
> non-law definition to be more strictly held.
>
> I do not see that home page as "hate speech" in either definition.  It's
> essentially a more creative and descriptive way of saying "we teach our
> students to fight the idea of secularism".  Nowhere did I see anything
> advocating actual violence.  It was a metaphor.  Or hyperbole.  Or
> something.  English class was a long time ago.  What it's not is hate
> speech.  Not in my opinion, anyway.
>
> I don't classify myself as a secularist, but they probably would.  I
> don't feel threatened in any manner.  If I met a bunch of NSA students
> in a dark alley and mentioned I was a proponent of secularism, the worst
> I would fear is a long debate when I'm just trying to get home from work.
>
> To put it bluntly, you all are making a mountain out of a mole hill
> because you don't like Christ Church.  Let it go.  If they start
> threatening people on their website, I'll be on your side in trying to
> convince them to stop.  As it is, I'm only tempted to send them a note
> telling them that I thought the gift card thing was creative.
>
> Paul
>
> Joe Campbell wrote:
> > Just to be clear, I am not really offended by NSA's website. I find it
> > amusing. I'm also as straight, white, Christian, and male as you are,
> > so it isn't too surprising that I'm not offended, that I don't feel
> > threatened by people I know to be cowards and political opportunists.
> > My real claim is that the NSA website is OFFENSIVE, that it is hate
> > speech.
> >
> > Here's a good enough definition that I found on the web: "Hate speech
> > is, outside the law, any communication which disparages a person or a
> > group on the basis of some characteristic such as race or sexual
> > orientation. In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct,
> > writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence
> > or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group,
> > or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or
> > group."
> >
> > I'm using it in the non-legal sense, so I'm not asking that the law
> > step into the matter. Are you suggesting that the website is NOT hate
> > speech, that it is not even worthy of criticism?
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> And I'm not just talking about Freedom of Speech as codified in the Bill
> >> of Rights.  That's only there to keep our government from trampling on
> >> freedom of expression, which is a right we all have regardless of the
> >> Bill of Rights.
> >>
> >> If this discussion had nothing to do with freedom of expression, then
> >> the topics would change from "violent rhetoric" and "this offends me" to
> >> "secularism doesn't have to be the enemy of Christian thought" and
> >> "exactly what is secularism and why does it frighten them so".
> >>
> >> You see what I'm sayin'?
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen wrote:
> >>
> >>> Paul Rumelhart stated:
> >>>
> >>> "I think the freedom of an individual or group of individuals to
> express
> >>> themselves is sacrosanct.  The freedom to express your opinion should
> be
> >>> held dearly by everyone, if they want to live in a free society."
> >>>
> >>> Nobody is arguing against NSA's right to speak or their right to post
> >>> comments on their website.
> >>>
> >>> Nick Gier and Joe Campbell are merely argiung that the statements made
> by
> >>> NSA are inappropriate, analagous to those complaints made here on the
> Viz
> >>> (and a local blahg) against those of us who express our displeasure
> with a
> >>> certain local un-pastor.
> >>>
> >>> New Saint Andrews College and its "management" are free to post
> whatever
> >>> commentary they like.  Just as each of us has the right to evaluate the
> >>> appropriateness of those comments.
> >>>
> >>> Yasee what I'm sayin'?
> >>>
> >>> Now, I may be going out on a limb here by suggesting that there are
> some
> >>> Viz subscribers that feel less than thrilled by comments I have made,
> and
> >>> they have every right to express their displeasure.  Many of them have.
> >>> And in the future many more will.
> >>>
> >>> And yet life goes on.
> >>>
> >>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> >>>
> >>> Tom Hansen
> >>> Moscow, Idaho
> >>>
> >>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to
> change
> >>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
> >>>
> >>> - Unknown
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> =======================================================
> >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >>               http://www.fsr.net
> >>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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