[Vision2020] Facebook; The death of Vision 2020?

Sat Aug 14 13:29:52 PDT 2010

That is a reasonable response, Saundra.  I still think it comes down to what
the purpose of this forum is.  If it is for discussion only, then I think it
serves it's purpose fine.  I am not really of any opinion at the moment, but
I find this to be an interesting discussion.  I get a little upset because
it feels to me like certain folks are shouting down other folks who are only
trying to foster a rational discussion about something that affects us all.

Saundra makes good points about facebook.  I will say that it is not as easy
to make a fake fb profile as you say, though.  Sure, it is easy to make a
fake account and hook it up to a throwaway e-mail, but let's think about
this.  First of all, we have to realize that it's a small amount of folks
who are nutty enough to go through all that rigmarole.  The ones that are
willing to do this will make a fake facebook account but they won't have any
"friends" on that account.  Or comments.  Or anything.  It will be very easy
to detect these sorts of folks and ban them.  As opposed to making a fake
account for a listserv like this one, for which all you need is a throwaway
e-mail and nothing else, making it much harder for admin's to detect these
sorts of folks.

As far as trolls go, it is very easy for a group admin to ban a troll from a
facebook group.  Again, I am not advocating this, just trying to be
informative.

Regardless, why should anyone *switch* from V20 to fb when Tom could just
create a V20 fb page and we could do both?  At the very least this might
invite some folks into our community that were not previously there.

I'm not fully sure why it is important to be able to look up who said what
and when.  In fact, I'm not sure I like everything I say to be so easily
accessible and permanent.

Regardless, my main problem with this message board is that there are a lot
of things I feel like I can't say here that I would feel comfortable saying
in a facebook group or in a more private forum.  As a liberal, I would like
to be able to discuss plans and strategy and formulate ideas within a
liberal community without feeling like I might be tipping off conservatives
in the area to what we are doing.

The most important thing, though, is that we should be able to talk about
this without feeling like we are being shouted down.

-Reggie

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm>wrote:

> Hi Donovan,
>
>
>
> In part, you wrote:
>
> “There is nothing you can do on Vision 2020 that cannot be done on
> Facebook, including looking up who said what and when.”
>
>
>
> Well, I’m not sure that’s correct:   there is a character limit to status
> updates, so it seems to me FB is more suited to quick back & forth comments
> rather than to in-depth conversations, don’t you think?  For instance, I
> don’t think (although I didn’t check) your response below to Tom would work,
> and I know this one wouldn’t!
>
>
>
> Additionally, FB only supports searching for who said what when back 30
> days AFAIK.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, there are lots & lots of people who simply won’t use FB
> because of the privacy issues.  For instance:
>
>
> http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/privacy-groups-facebook-there-s-more-do
>
>
>
> Now, I’m not saying V2020 is perfect from a privacy standpoint – I think
> I’ve mentioned that I regularly get spam to my dedicated V2020 email addy
> after posting – but FB is a much bigger target & thus the risks are much
> greater, IMHO.
>
>
>
> That said, I do like the profile aspect of FB, although I personally
> wouldn’t find it any more difficult to create a phony personality on FB than
> I would to create one for posting on the Viz if one were so inclined.
>
>
>
> I also think trolls would be a much bigger problem on FB, and that’s
> something that would be a *huge* drawback, IMHO.
>
>
>
> I guess I see “social networking” sites like FB as a completely different –
> but perhaps as important to some – as a community discussion forum like
> V2020.
>
>
>
> BTW, I took the FSR addys *off* my response because I doubt they’ve got
> much interest in reading this debate; so if anyone responding to this
> disagrees & wants their comments to go to FSR, you’ll need to add those
> addys back on.
>
>
>
>
>
> JMHO,
>
> Saundra Lund
>
> Moscow, ID
>
>
>
> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
> nothing.
>
> ~ Edmund Burke
>
>
>
> ****** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2010 through life
> plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
> outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
> author.******
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Donovan Arnold
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2010 11:43 AM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com; Tom Hansen
>
> *Cc:* webmaster at fsr.com; services at fsr.com; techsupport at fsr.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Facebook; The death of Vision 2020?
>
>
>
> Mr. Hansen,
>
>
>
> There is a huge technological difference between Facebook and the current
> V2020 format that was created in 1993 and has not changed since that time.
> Babies have been born and competed high school since this format was
> created. In technology terms, that makes it a great great great grandmother.
>
>
>
>
> There is nothing you can do on Vision 2020 that cannot be done on Facebook,
> including looking up who said what and when. And there is lots of things
> that can be done on Facebook that cannot be done on Vision 2020; basically
> every interface feature that has been invented since 1993.
>
>
>
> Contrary to your statement, it is harder to fake being someone else on
> Facebook than on Vision 2020.
>
>
>
> What is inconvenient and annoying about Vision 2020 is that it is time
> consuming and technologically limiting because it has not been updated since
> 1993.
>
>
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
> --- On *Sat, 8/14/10, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Facebook; The death of Vision 2020?
> To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>,
> vision2020 at moscow.com
> Cc: webmaster at fsr.com, services at fsr.com, techsupport at fsr.com
> Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 11:12 AM
>
> I have absolutely no problem browsing Vision 2020 mail/postings.
>
>
>
> I apply an extremely unique concept that has never failed me.  It’s called
> “Read the Subject Line”.
>
>
>
> I also have a Facebook account. It is no more difficult to establish a
> Facebook account under a fictitious name than it is with the current Vision
> 2020 system.
>
>
>
> One question, Mr. Arnold:  How is the current Vision 2020 system “annoying
> and unnecessarily inconvenient”?
>
>
>
> The current system is competent (in that it provides an efficient platform
> for its subscribers).
>
>
>
> All subscribers have no problem in accessing any of the active or inactive
> (old) threads.
>
>
>
> One MAJOR advantage the current system has over Facebook:  the ability to
> pinpoint who said what when, without having to browse page after page after
> page after page after page after page after . . . on Facebook.  All a person
> (and it wouldn’t even need to be a subscriber) would have to do is access
> Vision 2020 archives.  Trust me!  That function comes in very handy.
>
>
>
> Here’s another concept that has never failed me . . .
>
>
>
> “If it works, don’t fix it!”
>
>
>
> Seeya in the archives, V-peeps.
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Donovan Arnold
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 14, 2010 10:31 AM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Cc:* webmaster at fsr.com; services at fsr.com; techsupport at fsr.com
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Facebook; The death of Vision 2020?
>
>
>
> I believe, that Vision 2020, that hasn't changed its low-tech format since
> 1994, which is both annoying and unnecessarily inconvenient to use by its
> subscribers, will be replaced by another Internet company or reputable
> company or organization that establishes such a forum on Facebook or similar
> network.
>
>
>
> Sure, anyone could establish a Palouse Forum, but people would be more
> likely to join a forum created by First Step Internet that uses the same
> name.
>
>
>
> Image a Vision 2020 that took only moments to skim through instead of
> opening and closing each email, or getting one at the end of the day after
> the conversation is over. You could post links, images, and information much
> more quickly. And perhaps the best things of all would be that people could
> not use your name in postings or false names to launch personal attacks
> against members of the community.
>
>
>
> A Facebook account would be more meaningful and helpful to a community that
> wished to grow and be productive with its online networking. It would
> also be of better service to facilitate the purpose and mission of Vision
> 2020.
>
>
>
> Vision 2020 will eventually be replaced, the question is how it will be
> replaced, and by what entity. I hope it is still First Step Internet. But I
> don't see it making any moves to save Vision 2020 and keep ownership of its
> own idea of an uncensored soap box forum to facilitate change in the Palouse
> Community.
>
>
>
> Donovan Arnold
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Vision2020@moscow.com>
> =======================================================
>
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>

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