[Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law

Sun Apr 25 13:34:25 PDT 2010

"Thank you" isn't even close to adequate, Saundra, for the gratitude I feel for what you've written below.  I share your fear, your anger, and your commitment to sound the alarm when so many of the majority are content to just let the house burn down . . . 

Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

From: v2020 at ssl.fastmail.fm
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:32:14 -0700

In part, Keely wrote:

“I'm
really disappointed in the tone of much of the discussion here.  While it
is true that I have much more liberal views on immigration, and particularly
illegal immigration, than most of you, the point of my initial post is that the
Arizona bill signed into law by Gov. Brewer is a civil-rights, human dignity
horror . . . Finally, I'd ask each one of you who think we need to get tough on
"illegals" how hungry your kids would have to get, or how threatened
your wife would have to be, before you'd do something like cross a border
without papers to feed or protect them.  Then I'd ask you to consider that
you probably won't ever have to face that situation, and perhaps extend some
understanding to those who have.”

Of course, there are a lot of other valid points in Keely’s
posts on this topic, but I parts I’ve excerpted are particularly powerful
to me.

Keely, I’ve been trying to come up with a response to AZ’s
lunacy and blatant disrespect for our Constitution, but I’ve been
absolutely, totally, and completely gobsmacked by it.

About the only comments I can make are that there’s a foul
wind blowing in this country, and it’s been blowing for quite awhile
now.  It chills me to the bone and it terrifies me to my core.  We’ve
seen/heard/read – even here – justifications and excuses for the racism
that’s dramatically increased and become more “socially acceptable”
since 9/11.

While I understand that illegal immigration is a valid issue, I
don’t think legally institutionalizing racism is the way any just or
intelligent government would deal with it.  Of course, anti-intellectualism
is running rampant among those in this country who have reason to fear the
effects of all the red meat they’ve been throwing out for years now.

We see this in the gutting of education, which is an attempt  to
dumb us down to their moronic levels . . . to keep us fat, stupid, and quiet.

We also see this in the teabaggers at Friendship Square and
elsewhere who hold up signs proclaiming that “Millions of Americans doesn’t
equal a fringe movement” or some other stupid platitude when the reality
is they’ve been quite content for the millions of Americans without
health care to escape consideration, or millions of American women to be
discriminated against, or for millions of LGBT Americans to be denied equal
protection, or for millions of real American children to be beaten or started
or raped or neglected . . . or for millions of Americans of color to become the
targets of legal racism.

My only hope is that perhaps this will be the bridge too
far . . . that this will be what wakes up real Americans who genuinely
love this country and what it was truly founded on who have been silent in
complacency and refused to see the unconstitutional direction the wingnuts are
hell-bent & determined to force upon us.

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
people to do nothing.

~ Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2010
through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt,
or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****

From:
vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On
Behalf Of keely emerinemix

Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 6:52 PM

To: Chris Price; godshatter at yahoo.com

Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law

I'm really disappointed in the tone of much
of the discussion here.  While it is true that I have much more liberal
views on immigration, and particularly illegal immigration, than most of you,
the point of my initial post is that the Arizona bill signed into law by Gov.
Brewer is a civil-rights, human dignity horror.  

I think that's the thing we all ought to agree on.  Regardless of what
people would propose to solve the issues presented by illegal immigration, I'd
like to believe that every one of us would recognize bad law when we see it,
and would condemn it as such immediately.  After all, if there were a bill
that required that all gay people be rounded up and deported -- that is, all
people presumed to be gay by whatever criteria the cops are told to consider
"probable cause" -- I think it would be wrong to respond by
discussing, say, domestic partnerships or other issues involving the GLBT
community.  We would, I hope, vehemently condemn a despicable law,
regardless of our views on other issues involving the targets of it. 
Let's discuss the issue of undocumented border crossers, but let's remember
that the topic immediately at hand is a markedly un-American (and un-Christian)
bill that ought to provoke our fiercest response.  This isn't one of many reasonable
solutions to immigration problems.  Let's not discuss it as though it
were.

Before we discuss the "problem" of illegal immigration, shouldn't we
take a huge step back and look clearly at what this law does?  Does it
concern any of you that under the guise of addressing a legitimate issue, the
State has determined that physical, linguistic, cultural and other
ethnically-based criteria can be used to make people produce certain documents,
regardless of whether or not the subject has done anything to attract the
attention of law enforcement?  Can you reasonably suggest that there is
somehow a non-racial/ethnic aspect to this law?  Is this really what you
want law enforcement to occupy itself with?  

And does it bother you at all that if you're an Anglo person in the U.S.,
you're not going to be asked to produce your I.D. and birth certificate or
other residency/naturalization/citizenship papers just because a cop tells you
to, using immigration as the reason for his/her demand?  Are you at all
concerned that my sister-in-law's family, or my dear friend Hilda, could be
forced to produce documentation that shows their legal residency, just because
their skin color, last names, or accents appear "Mexican" -- even
though they're American citizens?  This is a hateful and unconstitutional
law that every single American -- and particularly our libertarian freedom
advocates -- ought to greet with horror, and if it continues unchallenged, we
won't be able to blame "illegals" for sullying the values and laws of
the land.  We'll have Arizona's and other state legislatures to thank for
that instead.

And to promote reasonable measures to address the issue, I'd suggest the
following -- but only after making it clear that unreasonable, unjust, and
un-Constitutional approaches don't merit discussion as if they were somehow
something good people can disagree on.  

1.  Grant immediate amnesty to any immigrant employed here for more than
three consecutive years, and include their working or non-working spouses and
their children, foreign-born or American-born.  This ought to be a
priority for the "family values" set.

2.  Tax them as we do all other workers, after they pay a fine -- say,
$1,000 per family for every year in the country without papers.  The
fiscal conservatives ought to love this.

3.  Make it more easy for immigrants to enter the country legally. 
It's currently damned near impossible, even for highly skilled workers, and
agricultural industries need a steady number of low-skilled people to harvest
crops, regardless of how they get here.  (Notice that even the most
conservative farmers, dairy owners, and other ag-industry owners aren't on the
anti-immigrant bandwagon?)  This should please those conservatives and all
others like them who eat, as well as those who think that people risk their
lives to cross over because, dang, it's kind of a hassle to go through legal
channels.

4.  Once those immigrants are granted amnesty -- permanent resident-alien
status, with a tax break, perhaps, upon earning citizenship -- the borders
should be patrolled humanely, constitutionally, and legally, and stiff
penalties for crossing illegally should then be enacted.  This should
satisfy the law-and-order crowd, although I'd remind them and anyone else who
clamors for the prosecution of employers who hire undocumented workers that the
Federal I-9 employment form MUST, by law, be accepted by an employer IF it
looks genuine.  I've been through U.S. Immigration and Naturalization
Service training on I-9s twice, and I know I could be fooled.  Employers
don't have the luxury, thank God, of examining an I-9 that looks fine and then
declining to hire the presenter anyway because statistics say it's PROBABLY not
genuine anyway.   That's illegal, too.  If an I-9 looks real, it
has to be accepted.  Period.  

Finally, I'd ask each one of you who think we need to get tough on
"illegals" how hungry your kids would have to get, or how threatened
your wife would have to be, before you'd do something like cross a border
without papers to feed or protect them.  Then I'd ask you to consider that
you probably won't ever have to face that situation, and perhaps extend some
understanding to those who have.

Keely

www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

From:
bear at moscow.com

To: godshatter at yahoo.com

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:10:15 -0700

CC: vision2020 at moscow.com

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law

Paul,

I agree that this is an issue that there
are no simple answers to. When you said "what we are now doing which is
 holding illegal immigration to be a
status that should be demonized", shouldn't it be?

I am NOT talking about those in this
country legally, but those in the country illegally.  Those folks that
have jumped through the hoops have paid their dues so to speak and should

be welcomed and should be held up as great
examples. Those however that have entered illegally, have in fact committed a
federal crime and should be prosecuted, deported and barred

from re-entry.

Now, one of the areas that does impact us
locally is with the certification that has to be submitted by employers to the
Department of  Labor to bring in foreign workers. 

The employer has to certify:

·        
There are
insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill the
position being offered at the prevailing wage

·        
Hiring a foreign
worker will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly
employed U.S. workers

Just think about this
when it involves the University and bringing in employees from outside the US.
The University is saying, "There are insufficient available, qualified,
and willing U.S. workers to fill the position being offered at the prevailing
wage". Well, what is that based on?  Notice there is NO mention of
"best qualified", just "qualified".  For instance, a
position becomes available at the University. Several people including US
citizens, put in for the position and a foreign national is given there job.
Now, when the University certifies to the federal government that "There
are insufficient available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill the
position being offered at the prevailing wage" is it true?  And is it
even looked into or is the certification taken on face value and
no subsequent investigation as to the truth or falsehood of the statement
by the employer is made? And there is a pro-forma process where the
notification  is "posted" for two weeks outside an obscure
office door where the other applicants  are unlikely to ever see it and be
able to contest the hiring decision. And a better question would be who makes
the determination at the employer level that  "There are insufficient
available, qualified, and willing U.S. workers to fill the position being
offered at the prevailing wage?"  Some clerk? The University
President? Who is held responsible IF a determination is made that the
statement is false? What is the consequence?  Currently, it doesn't appear
to be any at all, so why would the "system" ever change? 

This is just an
example of large gaps in the current immigration system that should be plugged.
It is also one of the reasons why laws like the one Arizona are passed and why
there is such a strong backlash against illegal immigrants. When qualified US
citizens are passed over for US taxpayer funded jobs to bring in a foreign
national, there is bound to be a backlash. And the depressed economic situation
adds to that backlash and frustration.

On
Apr 24, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Paul Rumelhart wrote:

Perhaps we should convict the employers even if they didn't know that they
hired an illegal alien.  It might make them care about due diligence when
hiring someone a little bit more.  I imagine that most of these people
aren't being paid at executive levels, they are probably being paid at much
less than minimum wage.  That alone should be a sign that they don't have
a legal status.  I don't think it's a case of employers being duped by
devious immigrants, they are in this with their eyes wide open.

Paul

lfalen wrote:

This
sounds good on the face of it. The problem is in how do you known if they are
an illegal alien? Will people have to produce some sort of proof that they are
a legal resident? These documents can  and are  forged. I have no
problem with convecting employers if it can be proven that they knowingly hired
illegals. This may be hard to prove.

Roger

-----Original
message-----

From:
"Mike Deleve" coolerfixer at roadrunner.com

Date:
Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:50:03 -0700

To:
"Wayne Price" bear at moscow.com,
 "keely emerinemix" kjajmix1 at msn.com

Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law

It's
incredibly easy. $100,000 mandatory fine with 1 year MANDATORY time in FEDERAL
PRISON for anyone employing an illegal alien. Employers are taking advantage of
the border jumpers, but the employment is why they come.

 -----
Original Message -----   From: Wayne Price   To: keely
emerinemix   Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
  Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:30 PM

 Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Racism Enshrined in Arizona Law

 Keely,

 While
I agree that this has opened a whole can of worms as far as profiling, DWM,
etc, etc,  What can or should be done about ILLEGAL immigrants?

 There
is a process, for better or worse that allows folks that are not US citizens
access to the US and to jobs in the US. From what I understand, the AZ law
isn't going after

 those
folks at all. It is focused on the illegal immigrants.

 Solutions?

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 On
Apr 23, 2010, at 3:26 PM, keely emerinemix wrote:

   Arizona
Governor Signs a Controversial Immigration Bill

   >
    > Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed a bill that
would require

   >
the police to ask people about their immigration status if

   >
officers have any reason to suspect that they are in the

   >
country illegally.  (NY Times, April 23, 2010)

   This
is shameful.

   "Any
reason to suspect" that someone is in the country illegally means simply
that "anyone who looks Mexican" could have their race, language,
ethnicity, customs become probable cause for questioning.  The idea of
"driving while Mexican" used to be a wry, sick joke.  Now, it's
a cornerstone for "law and order," and it reeks.

   I
hope our local "Libertarians" and freedom lovers join me in
condemning this bill with all vehemence.  Because if not, the silence from
their keyboards, fieldhouses, and offices would be deafening, given the
incessant braying recently about the State's denial of rights, pronounced
threats to liberty, and an alarming erosion of Constitutional and family
values.

   Keely

   www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

   Keely

   www.keely-prevailingwinds.com

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