[Vision2020] NYTimes: The Uneducated American

Fri Oct 9 16:19:36 PDT 2009

Perhaps things have changed but when I was at the U of I a person could get 
a pretty good intro to oxy-acetylene and arc welding through the ag-mech 
program. Seems hard to believe that if the program still exists that it 
hasn't been updated to include MIG and TIG processes and techniques as well. 
If your goal is simply to become proficent at the practical level you might 
check this out.

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne Price" <bear at moscow.com>
To: <nickgier at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NYTimes: The Uneducated American

> Nick,
>
> I agree with you 100%!  I saw it while I was stationed over in eastern
> europe. "Students" in the truest sense of the word that were going to
> state universities during the day, and on their own dime going to
> private universities at night to get a second or even third degree!
> In the equivalent junior/senior years of HS, the students are given an
> exam, pass the exam, and you get a university education on the
> governments dime. And if you don't pass the exam, but have a talent,
> you still get a higher education in what have turned out to be very
> lucrative trades.
>
> It reminds me of the joke about the fellow that calls a plumber and he
> shows up driving a new Mercedes.  The fellow says to the plumber that
> it must be nice being a plumber as he is a lawyer and only drives a
> Lexus! The plumber looks at the fellow and says: "Yep, before I became
> a plumber, I was a lawyer and drove an Oldsmobile"!
>
> I also think we are loosing a great opportunity here on the Palouse to
> offer "education" to adult learners by not opening up the Universities
> at night. We could very easily put together a night faculty and offer
> quality education to those that want it at night, and not just in what
> are considered "traditional" studies. I myself would love to learn how
> to weld. I've already got a doctorate and really don't need another
> one, but on the academic side of the house would love to go back for a
> masters in history, which I don't have. So, if I want to learn
> welding, I either have to travel south to LCSC and get into a "trades"
> class, or if I want the Masters in History, I have to enroll in day
> classes.
>
> The infrastructure is already in place, and we could creatively pay
> for a "night faculty" at the university. Would it bring in millions? -
> NO it wouldn't!
> Would it make the University "community friendly", you bet it would,
> and it would bring in a few bucks too!
>
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 9, 2009, at 2:31 PM, <nickgier at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings:
>>
>> If you look at where the best students are coming from, you will
>> find it is usually countries where faculty are heavily unionized and
>> education is centralized and is in hand of educational
>> professionals, not 16,000 separate school boards, some of whose
>> members believe that intelligent design is science.
>>
>> Nationalization of education doesn't appear to be such a bad thing
>> at all.  And if the U.S. had a national industrial policy, our
>> economy might be in much better shape as well.
>>
>> Nick Gier, President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFT/AFL-CIO
>>
>> ---- Glenn Schwaller <vpschwaller at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In the early 1980's the country was entering a deep recession
>>> amidst a
>>> continuing downward spiral in the "quality" of education.  The 1990's
>>> was a period of tremendous economic growth, yet education continued
>>> to
>>> spiral down despite infusions of cash into the system.  So $$ = A's?
>>> This seems to be what Paul Krugman suggests to be true, to the extent
>>> of demanding more dollars for education.
>>>
>>> The two major problems are what does the nation define as "education"
>>> and how is success for this undefined entity to be measured?  The
>>> current standards of measurement seem to show a dismal trend in
>>> educational success (low test scores and high drop-out rates) which
>>> has been going on for 20 years.  Are we measuring the proper "thing"?
>>> Do we even know what this "thing" is??  Again, looking at the boom
>>> 90's it certainly isn't lack of money.
>>>
>>> Dare we say it could be the quality of our educators? Is it lack of
>>> motivation on the part of both students and teachers?  And (gasp!)
>>> should education be "nationalized" so everyone is receiving the same
>>> level and type of instruction?  Should students and teachers be
>>> evaluated at the start of each school year in an effort to
>>> determine a
>>> proper and meaningful direction in what is being taught?  And are we
>>> "allowing" mediocre students to move forward in their mediocrity such
>>> that basic reading, writing and math skill are lacking as these
>>> students move into our universities and workforce?  One has to wonder
>>> considering the number of university students on the Palouse enrolled
>>> in remedial courses to correct these deficiencies.
>>>
>>> No, I do not think the answer is more money.  The underlying cause is
>>> more insidious than that, and the problem is no one seems to know
>>> what
>>> it is nor how to look for it.  Or do we really care??  Between the
>>> mid
>>> 80's and the mid 90's hundreds of educational reform proposals have
>>> been suggested.  Why has nothing worked?  Could it be as simple as
>>> collectively we know there is a problem - but so what?  There seems
>>> to
>>> be no incentive to get or give a "good" education - and this, I
>>> think,
>>> is the major problem.
>>>
>>> GS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>>  From The New York Times:
>>>>
>>>> OP-ED COLUMNIST: The Uneducated American
>>>>
>>>> Education in America, suffering for years, is about to get much
>>>> worse
>>>> thanks to cuts caused by the financial crisis.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/opinion/09krugman.html
>>>>
>>>> Get The New York Times on your iPhone for free by visiting 
>>>> http://itunes.com/apps/nytimes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
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>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================

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