[Vision2020] ID Public Records Law: UI

[Craine Kit]

Another cost of the lack of a realistic payment system for health care  
involves car insurance. I drive a 20 year old Honda. Most of my  
insurance premium is devoted to covering medical costs, just in case I  
am in an accident. A good chunk of that covers me and my passengers if  
the other driver is at-fault and un- or under insured.

Kit Craine





On Oct 6, 2009, at 7:56 AM, Wayne Price wrote:

> Saundra,
>
> Your message below has also brought up another unintended  
> consequence that has resulted from the insurance problem - Law suits!
>
> "And, even for those able to make minimal contributions to an HSA,  
> they may
>> never get ahead.  All it may take is your kid falling of his bike &  
>> breaking
>> his arm, or your daughter getting hit by a softball & needing  
>> stitches, or a
>> slip on the ice, or an asthma attack to wipe out the little  
>> saved . . . and
>> a good chunk of you annual salary to boot."
>
>
> A slip on the ice and underinsured? Result is to sue the property  
> owner.  Who threw the softball that resulted in little Susie needing  
> stitched up? Sue them.
> Billy falls off his bike due to an uneven sidewalk - Sue the  
> property owner!
>
> Folks that would normally just shake off the incident don't anymore.  
> Because of the lack of insurance (or under insured) the solution is  
> sue them.
>
>
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 6, 2009, at 1:07 AM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>
>> Hi Again Paul,
>>
>> You wrote:
>> " I'm not quite sure why my ginormous and presumably unearned  
>> salary has
>> become such a big issue.  I was letting you know that there are at  
>> least a
>> few situations where people are happily saving money on this plan."
>>
>> A couple of points.
>>
>> I'll say *again* I'm truly glad Plan H is working well for you.  As  
>> a member
>> of the UI community, I would certainly hope you would wish the same  
>> for the
>> UI employees -- that they have affordable access to health  
>> insurance that
>> works well for them -- who can afford nothing BUT Plan H that ISN'T  
>> working
>> well for them.
>>
>> And, I apologize if it sounded like I was picking on your salary --  
>> that
>> wasn't my intention.  I don't know what you make, and until your  
>> response, I
>> didn't know you had no dependents, either. When I first started  
>> looking into
>> the whole health insurance debacle in this country, I learned that  
>> rural
>> parts of the country face unique challenges with respect to both  
>> health
>> *care* and health *insurance*.  Looking for an easy quick & dirty
>> comparison, I thought I'd compare UI & BSU.  The results were  
>> shocking, and
>> not in a good way.  I then thought maybe I'd best check out ISU so I
>> wouldn't have a sample of one that could very well be skewed.  When  
>> the
>> rates were identical, I checked out LCSC only to see that they have  
>> the same
>> excellent choices and prices as the other two, and that's when I  
>> learned
>> that the reason for the excellent choices and prices are because  
>> they are
>> part of the state pool.
>>
>> Clearly, UI employees ***with families*** are at a HUGE financial
>> disadvantage with respect to health insurance, and that became my  
>> refrain.
>>
>> However, the more I asked questions and talked to UI employees, the  
>> more I
>> heard that it's *not* just UI employees with families -- single  
>> employees
>> are unhappy, too, particularly those towards the bottom of the
>> university-wide compensation spread.  If you're above that level,  
>> congrats
>> and I'm happy to assume you earn your salary just the same as the  
>> cleaning
>> specialist who's earning $21,000 a year  :-)
>>
>> I don't know how old you are, but allow me to point out that living  
>> on Ramen
>> noodles and pancakes is an entirely different thing when you are in  
>> your 20s
>> than when you are in your 40s . . . or older.
>>
>> It sounds like Plan H is a really good fit for you, but if you've  
>> kept up
>> with the health care debate, you surely understand that HSAs really  
>> *aren't*
>> appropriate for a great many people, yet that turned out to be the  
>> *only*
>> affordable option for a lot of UI employees.  You may also know  
>> that the
>> whole CDHC theory is hotly debated, and HSAs are perceived to be a
>> cornerstone of CDHC.  I think for people who WANT to take the risk  
>> with what
>> is modified catastrophic only coverage, that's their choice;  
>> however, I
>> vehemently disagree with a large employer like UI pricing the vast  
>> majority
>> of employees with families out of anything BUT a high deductible  
>> HSA plan.
>> It's just completely immoral, IMHO.
>>
>> But, let's get back to my main point, please:  what on earth is  
>> going on
>> that UI employees are at such a HUGE health insurance disadvantage  
>> compared
>> to other state employees?!  If the 25,000+ state employees --  
>> including
>> those just 30 miles away at LCSC -- were all in the same boat, that  
>> would be
>> one thing, but employees in the state pool are at a distinct  
>> advantage when
>> it comes to health insurance.  In addition to the real-life  
>> difference this
>> makes to UI employees, it's also harmful when it comes to  
>> recruiting faculty
>> and staff, which isn't good for the UI community.
>>
>> You also wrote:
>> "If you are putting money into the HSA, then you will have some in  
>> the
>> account that can be used when trying to meet your higher  
>> deductible.  I
>> understand that the first year is a crap shoot - you may need to  
>> pay $X when
>> you have yet put that much into the account."
>>
>> But, Paul, that's a big IF in your first sentence.  Quite a few of  
>> the
>> people I know who were financially forced into Plan H aren't able  
>> to benefit
>> much -- if at all -- from the HSA because they just can't afford to
>> contribute -- or contribute much -- to an HSA.  Rewind to my  
>> example of a
>> single parent with two children with a gross pay of $40,000 and  
>> tell me how
>> much you realistically think he or she could contribute to an HSA.   
>> We know
>> there are more than a few UI employees who qualify for food stamps,  
>> for
>> Pete's sake -- it's not difficult to understand how those in that  
>> situation
>> just can't contribute to an HSA, is it?
>>
>> And, even for those able to make minimal contributions to an HSA,  
>> they may
>> never get ahead.  All it may take is your kid falling of his bike &  
>> breaking
>> his arm, or your daughter getting hit by a softball & needing  
>> stitches, or a
>> slip on the ice, or an asthma attack to wipe out the little  
>> saved . . . and
>> a good chunk of you annual salary to boot.
>>
>> You also wrote:
>> "What are the differences in coverage between Plan A and Plan H?   
>> I'm not
>> trying to claim that Plan H is better, I simply don't know."
>>
>> Ron sent you the link, so you can check that out, but I'll throw  
>> out a
>> couple of examples for those who just want a quick glimpse.  The  
>> deductibles
>> are dramatically different with Plan A being a heck of a lot better  
>> ($350
>> individual / $1050 family aggregate), and Plan B being even better  
>> ($175
>> individual / $525 family aggregate), and Plan H sucking ($1150  
>> single /
>> $2300 family).  Of course, the employee premium is higher for Plans  
>> A & B.
>>
>> But, there are other very real differences as well.  For those able  
>> to
>> afford Plan A (or Plan B) premiums, they can see a doctor if they  
>> get sick
>> for a very reasonable *pre-deductible* co-pay.  For those on Plan  
>> H, you pay
>> EVERYTHING (except wellness/preventative care) *until* you meet the
>> deductible.
>>
>> For those able to afford Plan A, should you or a family member need  
>> an
>> ambulance, it will only cost you a $50 *pre-deductible* co-pay.   
>> For those
>> with Plan H, you'll pay the entire amount unless or until you've  
>> met the
>> deductible, and then insurance will cover 70% of UCR costs.
>>
>> And, of course, the coverage levels are less for those with Plan H  
>> even once
>> the deductible is met.  For someone with Plan A or (B), you have a  
>> $25 (or
>> $15) co-pay if you have to go to the QuickCare; that same visit  
>> will cost
>> someone with Plan H about $41 IF they have met the deductible.   
>> Generally
>> speaking, Plan A pays 80%, Plan B pays 90%, and Plan H pays 70%.
>>
>> OTOH, the family out-of-pocket maximums are lower for those on Plan  
>> H than
>> for those on the UI's Plan A.
>>
>> Paul, both Rose & I have tried to get stats for many of the  
>> questions you're
>> asking.  Previously, statistics were readily available; now, the UI  
>> acts
>> like you are asking for top secret information when you ask.   
>> Frankly, if
>> the UI wants to act secretive and suspicious -- and to tell different
>> stories to different audiences -- I'm going think there's a reason  
>> for the
>> complete lack of transparency until proven otherwise.
>>
>> You also wrote:
>> "It's my understanding that we haven't been on the State plan for  
>> years, if
>> ever.  What would we have paid if we had stayed with Regence?"
>>
>> According to the Benefits person I spoke with, the UI has never  
>> been in the
>> state pool.  My understanding is the question has arisen  
>> periodically -- I
>> think someone has asked it at every Open Enrollment meeting I've  
>> attended --
>> and the explanation has always been that it would be  
>> disadvantageous to UI
>> employees because we are a healthier pool.
>>
>> Clearly, that explanation hasn't held any water for at least the  
>> last two
>> years yet it continues to be the explanation offered.
>>
>> I don't know what the premiums would be had we stayed with Regence  
>> because
>> the UI jumped ship for FY04, IIRC.
>>
>> However, I can tell you that the City of Moscow has Regence as their
>> carrier, and they are looking at a 4.5% premium increase.  The City
>> apparently covers the cost for employees as well as 50% of the cost  
>> for
>> dependents, if I correctly understood Mr. Riedner's comments in the
>> 9/28/2009 Administrative Committee meeting.  Because employees  
>> didn't get
>> raises, the City is proposing to absorb the 4.5% increase so that  
>> employees
>> don't see their wages eroded, and I say KUDOS to the idea.
>>
>> Of course, I don't know what City employees pay in premiums or  
>> details of
>> the coverage, but I sure hope our hard-working City employees have  
>> better
>> coverage than the two-thirds of hard-working UI employees stuck  
>> with the
>> high deductible Plan H.
>>
>> Again, if all state employees were in the same rotten boat as UI  
>> employees,
>> that would be one thing, but they aren't.  State employees have two
>> infinitely more affordable health insurance options in addition to an
>> affordable high deductible plan where  one could CHOOSE to  
>> individually open
>> an HSA, if I correctly understand the regulations (no guarantee  
>> there!).
>>
>> If you -- or anyone else -- has read this far, thanks  :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people  
>> to do
>> nothing.
>> ~ Edmund Burke
>>
>> ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through  
>> life plus
>> 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or  
>> reproduce outside
>> the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the
>> author.*****
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:21 PM
>> To: Saundra Lund
>> Cc: 'Wayne Price'; 'Moscow Vision 2020'; 'Rosemary Rose Huskey'
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] ID Public Records Law: UI
>>
>> Saundra,
>>
>> I had every confidence that you had crunched the numbers.  I just  
>> wanted
>> to know what plans and what options.  More below.
>>
>> Saundra Lund wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>>> "Where does the $191 per pay period number come from?  Which plan,  
>>> what
>>> options?"
>>>
>> <lots of great information snipped for brevity>
>>> Paul, I'm truly glad the CHOICE you made to go with Plan H is  
>>> working for
>>> you, but I would certainly hope you've not lost the humanity to  
>>> understand
>>> that people who earn half what you make feel very differently  
>>> about being
>>> financially forced into Plan H.  Extend yourself, Paul, and talk to
>> someone
>>> at the UI whose gross pay is $25,000 per year, and ask them how  
>>> easy it is
>>> for them to make ANY contribution to the HSA or to meet the $1150
>> individual
>>> / $2300 family deductible.  Then, find a single parent (and there  
>>> are more
>>> than a few) at UI whose gross pay is $40,000 per year, and ask  
>>> that parent
>>> how Plan H is working for them.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not quite sure why my ginormous and presumably unearned salary  
>> has
>> become such a big issue.  I was letting you know that there are at  
>> least
>> a few situations where people are happily saving money on this plan.
>> The amount I put away into the HSA was factored into my resulting $3
>> health care payment.
>>
>> I started working at the U of I making minimum wage, so I know  
>> something
>> about eating Top Ramen and pancakes to get by.  Not real poverty by  
>> any
>> means, but not the country club atmosphere you seem to believe I've
>> insulated myself with.
>>
>>> In short, it's NOT.  Because they can't AFFORD real insurance like  
>>> Plan A
>> or
>>> Plan B where you can see a doctor for an affordable pre-deductible  
>>> co-pay,
>>> they can't AFFORD to see doctors for things like bronchitis or  
>>> pneumonia
>> or
>>> ear aches or strep -- or headaches that may be a symptom of  
>>> hypertension
>> --
>>> without becoming unable to afford to EAT or pay their rent or put  
>>> gas in
>> the
>>> cars to get to work or pay child care so they can work.  I know  
>>> several UI
>>> employees who have had to stop taking medication for chronic health
>>> conditions because they can't AFFORD to pay the entire monthly  
>>> cost of the
>>> medication until they meet the deductible  :-(
>>>
>>
>> Of course the landscape changes if you have dependents, or if you  
>> have
>> chronic ailments, or if you have other drains on your bank  
>> account.  I
>> agree with that.
>>
>>> I can also tell you, Paul, that even the single Plan H UI  
>>> employees I've
>>> showed the costs to would much rather pay $30 per month for that PPO
>>> coverage or $37 per month for traditional coverage than to be  
>>> stuck with
>>> Plan H.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps I'm unique then.  I like plan H.  I made it through the first
>> year, so I now have enough in my HSA to cover my deductibles.  I like
>> the lower ceiling.  I go to the doctor only when I have to anyway,  
>> I'm
>> covered if something horrible happens, and I pay less than I do for  
>> my
>> parking permit for it.  I have an account that, gods willing, I can  
>> use
>> as an extra retirement account someday.  Or as a source of needed  
>> cash
>> if I do have something tragic happen to me.
>>
>>> It's a damn shame that UI employees are getting totally SCREWED on  
>>> health
>>> insurance while those in the state insurance pool continue to be  
>>> offered
>>> real and affordable health insurance.
>>>
>>> And, here's another little factoid the UI isn't talking about:  when
>> people
>>> can't AFFORD to go to the doctor when they are sick, they are far  
>>> less
>>> likely to take advantage of wellness/preventative care benefits.   
>>> So, for
>>> all those UI employees -- and their families -- who were financially
>> FORCED
>>> into Plan H, the wellness/preventative care benefit most likely  
>>> won't pay
>>> off over time by helping keep health care costs down as intended.
>>>
>>> Paul, I don't have statistics for this year because the UI has  
>>> become less
>>> and less transparent about the information over the last couple of  
>>> years,
>>> but I can tell you that for CY08, something like 67% of employees  
>>> went
>> with
>>> Plan H, 26% were able to afford Plan A, and only 7% could afford  
>>> Plan B.
>>>
>>
>> Without taking this as an attack or anything, what does the Plan H
>> participant pay compared to the Plan A participant if they take full
>> advantage of the HSA?  Just to get the numbers.  If you are putting
>> money into the HSA, then you will have some in the account that can  
>> be
>> used when trying to meet your higher deductible.  I understand that  
>> the
>> first year is a crap shoot - you may need to pay $X when you have yet
>> put that much into the account.
>>
>> What are the differences in coverage between Plan A and Plan H?   
>> I'm not
>> trying to claim that Plan H is better, I simply don't know.
>>
>>> And, to show you just how completely out of touch UI  
>>> administration is
>> with
>>> the financial realities for their employees, they thought the  
>>> reason for
>> the
>>> "success" of Plan H was because they "actively marketed" it.   
>>> <snort>  How
>>> they can remain oblivious to the fact that Plan H is the ONLY  
>>> coverage
>> many
>>> employees can afford is a mystery to me, particularly since  
>>> employees
>>> certainly haven't been quiet about it!
>>>
>>> Paul also wrote:
>>> "I don't know if we can get these numbers, but it would be nice to  
>>> know
>> what
>>> LCSC pays average per employee compared to the U of I.  That might  
>>> be
>>> something we can sink our teeth into."
>>>
>>> I really don't think that would be helpful because they are  
>>> fortunate to
>> be
>>> in the state pool.  What you'd want to see is the average pay of  
>>> those in
>>> the state pool compared to the average UI employee.
>>>
>>> In looking back through all the meeting minutes, it's a CRUEL JOKE  
>>> that UI
>>> employees have been told at every turn it wouldn't be advantageous  
>>> for the
>>> UI to participate in the state insurance pool because UI employees  
>>> are a
>>> healthier pool and we'd see our costs go up were we to join the  
>>> state
>> pool.
>>> In fact, when questioned in ***2007*** Lloyd Mues offered the same
>>> explanation yet again and added that the state pool rates wouldn't  
>>> look as
>>> good come ***July 1, 2008*** as they then looked.  Fortunately for  
>>> all the
>>> state employees -- and unfortunately for UI employees -- Mues was  
>>> wrong,
>>> wrong, wrong.
>>>
>>> For any who are interested in seeing for themselves the details of  
>>> the
>>> coverage those in the state pool are offered, check out:
>>> http://adm.idaho.gov/insurance/contracts.htm
>>> For FY10, check out:
>>>
>> http://adm.idaho.gov/insurance/grp/contracts/FY2010/GI_Handbook_Summary_FY20
>>> 10_final_CCD.pdf
>>> Current rates are on page 14.
>>>
>>> State pool rate increases positively pale in comparison to what my  
>>> family
>>> has seen with the UI in recent years.  Our family premiums  
>>> increased 23%
>> for
>>> FY07 (7/1/2006 - 6/30/2007).  We then had a WHOPPING 69% premium  
>>> increase
>>> effective 7-1-2007, and we *would* have had another 70% premium  
>>> increase
>>> just six months later effective 1-1-2008, but that's when we were
>>> financially forced into Plan H.
>>>
>>
>> It's my understanding that we haven't been on the State plan for  
>> years,
>> if ever.  What would we have paid if we had stayed with Regence?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================