[Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Wed Nov 18 13:08:58 PST 2009
At the risk of being smacked down for it, I would ask that maybe we avoid using in full the "C" word on Vision. It is to women, I think, the equivalent of the "N" word for Blacks, and when I wrote of "c---," it was in the context of explaining how utterly offensive it is.
So while I know this will annoy the hell out of some of you -- "Keely's being all school-marmish again," I still think enough of my fellow Visionaires to at least ask.
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:31:25 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
At the risk of offending everybody (which I have done on numerous
occasions) and given the distinction between "bitch" and "bitchy" Ms. Hovey has
perspicaciously made, here's another
viewpoint:
When a minority person, a homosexual, or a woman do not perform well
in a particular job/position and their performance does not rise to expectations
even with careful mentoring and monitoring, management is often reluctant
to remove that person for fear of being labeled or sued for being "racist",
"homophobic", "sexist", etc.
This is an insidious form of discrimination also. Not only is it
unjustified special treatment, but it is counterproductive -- it tends to help
justify and to perpetuate incorrect stereotypes and bad feelings, leaving
incompetents to be thought of as general representatives of their class and of
as undeserving also.
Tom posted a dictionary definition of "bitchy." There is no gender
reference in that definition. There is none in the Encarta
definition nor is there any in The New American Oxford Dictionary
definition. This is true of the word itself and of the referents to which it may be applied.
None of the definitions of "bitchy", unlike those definitions for "jezebel",
e.g., specify that the referent is female.
If someone is malicious, spiteful, petulantly childish, etc, they are
bitchy. The word describes behavior completely under the control of the
person to whom it is applied, and moreover, behavior that is generally
destructive. It is not like the n-word, "squaw", "poof", "cunt" or
...(well, you get the idea) traits that are either hereditary or
nondestructive.
Unless someone has lived in a convent most of your life, it is strange
that they have not heard the word "bitchy" used to describe both men and
women who are spiteful, petulant, etc. In fact, there are several male
clerks and proprietors in Moscow/Pullman businesses and males in
Moscow/Pullman government to which the word "bitchy" is applied not
infrequently.
Bitching about applying the word "bitchy" to a woman for whom the word
correctly describes is like the insidious discrimination described above.
Are women to get special treatment by being secured from being called "bitchy"
even those the word fits and has long ago lost its gender reference?
That's what sounds very sexist to me, like
not firing an incompetent woman for fear of being falsely labeled as
"sexist." And such insistence that we not accurately use the word
"bitchy" is bound to be counterproductive -- leading those of either gender who
bitch about using "bitchy" to describe deserving people to be described as
"bitchy" themselves.
There are many places where progress needs to continue to be made with
respect to gender roles. There are cases where language itself can be very
sexist. I suggest to those of us in that battle that we worry more
about derogatory terms whose referents are female or imply undesirable clearly
feminine traits rather than words like "bitchy" whose referents have
long ago became genderless.
Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID
83843
waf at moscow.com
208 882-7975
----- Original Message -----
From:
keely emerinemix
To: Sue Hovey ; deco at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:22
AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] The new The
Saga Continues...
And, of course, there's the verb "to bitch," which means
complaining to your friends of either gender about the inconvenience of having
to have sex-less snow tires put on your equally sex-less car by Les Schwab
attendants both male and female who work hard but nonetheless have six hours
of cars ahead of you -- six hours of work on cars driven by women and men who
are also complaining to their guy and gal friends about the wait.
Synonyms here might be "whine, moan, and gripe," and not one of them describes
only female behavior.
So while the noun and the adjective originally
referred negatively to women, I guess the verb form hearkens back to the days
when men perceived that even the mildest, most tepid complaint from their
women was mere confirmation that, darn it all, they needed to be watched out
for.
Particularly if it was "that time of the month." You
know how we get . . .
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
From: suehovey at moscow.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; deco at moscow.com;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga
Continues...
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:32:04 -0800
So we do....There is, perhaps, a perceived
distinction between "bitchy" and "bitch," though. One is a noun, the
other an adjective and by inference less pejorative. And I don't tally by
gender so what you say may be true in my world, too.
Sue H
----- Original Message -----
From:
keely
emerinemix
To:
deco at moscow.com ;
vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:18 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
We do live in different worlds . . .
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tue,
17 Nov 2009 17:43:06 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga
Continues...
We must live in two different worlds. In mine "bitchy" means
childishly petulant. In my world women use the term much more than
men, and use it unisexually.
W.
-----
Original Message -----
From:
keely
emerinemix
To:
deco at moscow.com
; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:09 PM
Subject:
RE: [Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
I'm with Gary on this one (sorry, Gary). "Bitchy" and
forms thereof may be something leveled at a guy, like "Hey, dude, just
stop bitchin' about it!" But at its core, and as the etymology
confirms, it's the denigrating of a woman by likening her to a
she-dog. When McCain staffers called Hillary Clinton a bitch, the
offense wasn't that they were mean to her; they could just as easily have
said she was "an arrogant a--hole" or something equally snotty. But
"bitch" is the pejorative you need when you want to cut a woman down or
put her in her place, and even its recent androgynous use -- along the
lines of "Hey, car bitch! Go get my Corvette!" for the parking valet
-- is meant to demean the object as someone worthy of dismissal and
denigration.
And women know "dismissal" and "denigration" all too
well . . .
Keely
www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
From: deco at moscow.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov
2009 14:02:27 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga
Continues...
I am unaware that calling anyone, man or woman, "bitchy"
is sexist, but a matter of fact in the context of "arms
akimbo."
Perhaps, you need to stop looking at the world through
keyholes.
W.
-----
Original Message -----
From:
the lockshop
To:
Art Deco ; Vision
2020
Sent:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
I think she looks.....fine.
What's amusing is a remark that denies
the out of context use of the photo as sexist followed by comment that
includes the term "bitchy."
g
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Art Deco
To:
Vision 2020
Sent:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:07 PM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
Perhaps I missed something, but where does it say it
was used without permission. I do not have access to the
contract between Runner's World and Ms. Palin, but in my
experience such photo shoot contracts give total control of the
material created to the payer for the photo shoot. Perhaps you
have other information.
In any case, Palin did give permission for the photo
to be used by Runner's World. I hardly think the
photo sexist, but with her arms akimbo, she does look a little
bitchy.
W.
-----
Original Message -----
From:
the lockshop
To:
Art Deco
; Vision 2020
Sent:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:40 AM
Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
Considering the text on that cover and
the fact that the photo was taken for an article to appear in
Runners World magazine and used without permission one sort of has
to wonder how this rag justifies calling itself "Newsweek." Perhaps
Left Wing Opinionweak would be more appropriate. Considering their
dwindling circulation, I suppose it hardly matters.
g
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Art
Deco
To:
Vision 2020
Sent:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:42 AM
Subject:
[Vision2020] The new The Saga Continues...
Let's see. Didn't
she pose for the photo at issue for distribution in a magazine, or
was that some egregious impostor?
Palin slams 'sexist' Newsweek cover
Posted: November 17th, 2009
12:06 PM ET
>From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney
Palin is not happy with the
latest Newsweek cover.
(CNN) - Sarah
Palin's image is everywhere as she launches a highly-anticipated
book tour this week, but the former Alaska governor is unhappy
with at least one media organization's depiction of her.
Palin
took aim at Newsweek's eye-catching cover this week that shows the
former vice presidential candidate in her running outfit - an image that was apparently lifted from a
Runner's World photo shoot months ago. Writing on
her Facebook page Monday night, Palin said the
depiction is flat out "sexist, and oh-so-expected."
"The choice
of photo for the cover of this week's Newsweek is unfortunate.
When it comes to Sarah Palin, this 'news' magazine has relished
focusing on the irrelevant rather than the relevant," Palin wrote.
"The out-of-context Newsweek approach is sexist, and
oh-so-expected by now."
"If anyone can learn anything from it:
it shows why you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, gender, or
color of skin. The media will do anything to draw attention – even
if out of context," Palin also said.
The photo is accompanied
by text that states "How Do You Solve A Problem Like Sarah? She's
bad news for the GOP - and for everybody else too."
Palin has
held back few punches at the media in the initial stages of her
publicity tour. The former governor slammed
the Associated Press for its recent fact check that
took issue with several of the memoir's contentions and, in
her Oprah appearance that aired Monday, Palin slammed
the way the media treated her family during the campaign.
The
Alaska Republican also doesn't hold back in her book, writing at
one point, "I had been out of journalism for a long time, and it
was pretty obvious the rules had changed. I felt sick about the
depths to which some in the press had apparently sunk, not because
it was unfair to me and John, but because it was unfair to the
American electorate."
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