[Vision2020] And Yet, The Saga Continues . . .

Sun Nov 15 03:03:49 PST 2009

I should clarify that I am not offended by the "Millions are Good without
God" billboard, now replaced.  I think that what it states is true.
Millions who do not believe in "God," are kind, honest people, who treat
their fellow human beings and other lifeforms well.  But I can understand
why someone would strongly feel this message to be encouraging harm, given
certain religious assumptions, and would thus feel compelled to "alter" the
billboard.

On 11/14/09, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2008 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>   Awesome and insightful post Mr. Moffett! I can only hope others will
> read and understand your expertly stated explanation of his person or
> persons behaviors toward that sign.
>
> I personally don't think that vandalism is the best way to remove the sign.
> I would do a price beat with the sign company for the space, or I would
> petition the city to remove all of those ugly roadside signs that destroy
> the environment and the beauty of the Palouse.
>
> Your Friend,
>
> Donovan Arnold
> --- On *Sat, 11/14/09, Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And Yet, The Saga Continues . . .
> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 9:46 PM
>
>
>  Absolute certainty in a belief that if someone does not believe in God,
> their "eternal soul" is damned forever, renders the "Millions are Good
> without God" message one that might do great harm, for someone who takes
> this belief with utmost seriousness and acts accordingly.  From this point
> of view, it is not "benignly worded," but suggests that not believing in God
> is an acceptable option, when in fact the fate of a persons eternal soul is
> in jeopardy, if they take the billboard seriously.
>
> Those who argue that religion is not a primary source of problems in our
> world seem to downplay that if someone takes certain rather incredible yet
> common religious beliefs seriously, and acts upon them, vandalism, war,
> bigotry, etc., become reasonable.  The aggressive tactics of missionaries
> (sometimes not calling themselves "missionaries" explicitly) have been and
> still are defended given the logic that if unbelievers are not converted,
> their eternal souls are lost; extreme measures are reasonable given this
> logic.  What is the importance of one human biological lifetime compared to
> the future life of an eternal soul?
>
> If I really believed with certainty that those who do not believe in
> God would have their eternal soul damned, I might defend vandalizing a
> billboard with a message suggesting that not believing in God is
> acceptable, as a form of "civil disobedience," a moral duty, even if illegal
> and risking penalties from the justice system of the State.
>
> I'm not sure what Thoreau would think about a billboard vandalized due to
> religious principles:
>
> From Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience," available online in total at the
> website below:
>
> "Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor
> to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress
> them at once? Men generally, under such a government as this, think that
> they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them.
> They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the
> evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy *is *worse
> than the evil. *It* makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate
> and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does
> it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens
> to be on the alert to point out its faults, and *do* better than it would
> have them?"
>
> *Civil Disobedience - Part 1 of 3*
>
> http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com<http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=godshatter@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> It's not the fact that it's a little vandalism that is the important
>> point, at least to me.  It's the intolerance of such a benignly worded
>> sign that I find astounding.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> the lockshop wrote:
>> > "...this is attention Moscow can do without."
>> >
>> > While I agree that it's not terribly flattering for Moscow's reputation
>> as
>> > the most left leaning township in Idaho, I hardly see it as anti-crime
>> > priority #1. After all, what's the worst that might come of the negative
>> > publicity? The American Atheist Assn. won't have it's winter solstice
>> > bachanal in our bustling metropolis? Or, perhaps the ACLU spring
>> fertility
>> > rite and craft fair will see attendance suffer? I very much doubt it.
>> >
>> > If this is the most egregious crime to be reported from our sleepy
>> little
>> > burg to make the internet rounds, I'll be happy to admit that, while I
>> don't
>> > care for vandalism of any kind, compared to other forms of noteriety we
>> > could be villified for, I'll somehow find a way to come to terms with
>> the
>> > shame.
>> >
>> > g
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Kenneth Marcy" <kmmos1 at verizon.net<http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kmmos1@verizon.net>
>> >
>> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com<http://us.mc447.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vision2020@moscow.com>
>> >
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:57 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And Yet, The Saga Continues . . .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Thursday 12 November 2009 12:09:48 Tom Hansen wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> For a historical aspect of dastardly doings done dirty . . .
>> >>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/GoodGod.htm
>> >>>
>> >> Following the URL www.americanhumanist.org to their web site, then
>> >> entering Moscow in the site's Search box, reveals that their site is
>> >> reporting the vandalism Internet-wide. Since this is attention Moscow
>> >> can do without, it behooves local law enforcement personnel to do
>> >> everything reasonably possible to bring closure to this matter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >>
>> >> =======================================================
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>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> >> =======================================================
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>
>
>
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