[Vision2020] Gun D-B8
donald edwards
donaledwards at hotmail.com
Fri Mar 20 11:54:52 PDT 2009
Yes Donovan, I realized this information was old but still shows a trend. The release of this information has been classified since the Patriot Act was rushed through....probably. (Sarcasm works 2 ways, buddy; although I do find I agree with some of your points more often than before).
Don
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Debate
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <958018.34920.qm at web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Don,
> ?
> Do you have any statistics on guns from this millennium?
> ?
> I also want to find out if people would rather be shot in the head with a registered handgun, or an unregistered handgun.
> ?
> I also wonder if people would support proposed legislation to require the manufactures of BB guns to include an extra glass eye to fit any child between the ages of 9 and 16.
> ?
> Best Regards,
> ?
> Donovan
>
> --- On Wed, 3/18/09, donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: donald edwards <donaledwards at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gun Debate
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 5:59 PM
>
>
>
>
> #yiv838932065 .hmmessage P
> {
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>
> Few things to consider:
> More restrictions may lead to less gunowners willing to jump through the hoops, thus less?guns for the?tweekers to steal.? Less hassle & risk to cops, too.
> ?
> Here's one occurance in Pocatello with a tweeker in the house with 2 little kids, a wife and 3 of the husband's guns.?
> http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/theres-an-intruder-in-the-house/article51236.html
> ?
> Below:? Only 341,000 stolen per year!
> ?
>
>
>
>
> Rank of the Lorcin 380 in the ATF's top ten most-traced firearms:
> 1
>
> Number of so called "Junk Guns" in the top ten:
> 6
>
> (Source: ATF 1996 Firearms Enforcement Report)
>
>
>
>
> Number of firearms produced by US manufacturers every minute:
> 8
>
> Number of handguns produced by US manufacturers every minute:
> 3
>
> Number of handguns produced every 2 minutes by ROF in 1995:
>
> 1
>
>
> [Number of pistols produced by Ring of Fire companies in 1995 257,155.
>
>
> (Source: ATF manufacturing numbers)
>
>
>
> Average number of firearm thefts that occur every year in the US:
> 341,000
>
> (Source: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns and Crime, 4/94)
>
>
>
> Number of guns federal firearms licensees have reported as lost, stolen or missing since Sept. 13, 1994 when the Clinton Crime Bill made reporting a requirement:
> 23,775
>
> Percentage decrease in federal firearms licensees since 1993:
> 56%
>
> Number of federal firearms licensees in the US:
> 124,286
>
> Number of ATF agents to regulate them:
> 391
>
> Number of trace requests responded to by the ATF in 1996:
> 139,092
>
> Number of ATF employees who work on trace requests:
> 41
>
> (Source: ATF: Gun Dealer Licensing and Illegal Gun Trafficking, Jan.,1997)
>
>
>
> Percentage of Americans who agree that "companies that manufacture guns with no hunting or sporting purpose should be held financially responsible when these guns injure or kill people":
> 45
>
> (Source: BJS Sourcebook of criminal justice statistics, pg. 190)
>
>
>
> Percentage of Americans who feel that "the laws covering the sale of firearms should be made more strict":
> 62
>
> (Source: BJS Sourcebook of criminal justice statistics, pg. 191)
>
>
>
> Number of federal safety standards that apply to the manufacture of teddy bears:
> 4
>
> Number of federal safety standards that apply to the manufacture of firearms:
> 0
>
> (Mother Jones, Jan-Feb/94)
>
>
>
> Number of firearms in the US:
> 223 Million
>
> (Source: US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime, 7/95, from ATF data)
>
>
>
> Percentage of L.A. High School students who say they could obtain a gun for less than $50:
> 25
>
> (Source: ACLU report: From Words to Weapons, 3/97)
>
>
>
> Percentage of arrestees who say it is easy to get a gun illegally:
> 55
>
> (Source: Arrestees and Guns: Monitoring the Illegal Firearms Market, 5/96)
>
>
>
> Percentage of all Saturday Night Specials produced by the "Ring of Fire" companies:
> 80
>
> Percentage of all handguns produced by the "Ring of Fire" companies in 1992:
> 34
>
> (Source: Wintemute, G.J. Ring of Fire: The Handgun Makers of Southern California (Sacramento, CA: Violence Prevention Research Program, 1994))
>
>
>
> Number of murders committed in 1995 in the US:
> 20,043
>
> Percentage of murders committed with a firearm:
> 68 (13,673)
>
> Percentage of murders committed with a handgun:
> 56 (11,198)
>
> (Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1995)
>
>
>
> Projected year when deaths from gunfire will surpass death from auto accidents:
> 2001
>
> (Source: CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control Fact Sheet, 1/25/96)
>
>
>
> Year that the NRA supported a SNS importation ban and called the guns "miserably-made, potentially defective arms that contribute so much to rising violence" :
> 1968
>
> (Source: "Are we Really So Violent?" American Rifleman, February, 1968.)
>
>
>
> Cost of firearms assault injuries per fatal gunshot wound:
> $21,700
>
> Total cost per survivor of gunshot wounds caused by assault:
> $260,000
>
> Total cost of firearm assault injury and death in 1992:
> $63.4 billion
>
> (Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics - Firearm Injury from Crime - 4/96)
>
>
>
> Cost of a Lorcin .22 handgun at a Pasadena California sporting goods store:
> $40
>
> (Source: Center for Investigative Reporting)
>
>
>
> Number of people killed by firearms every hour in America:
> 4
>
> (Source: CDC)
>
>
>
> Number of crime victims that were shot in 1994:
> 32,162
>
> (Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1995, pg. 274)
>
>
>
> Number of violent crimes reported to police that were committed with firearms in 1994:
> 544,880
>
> (Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1995, pg. 274)
>
>
>
> Percent increase in juveniles arrested for weapons violations from '85-'94 :
> 113
>
> (Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1995, pg. 276)
>
>
>
> Number of violent crime victimizations committed with a firearm in 1993:
> 1.3 million
>
> Number in 1995:
> 815,130
>
> (Source: National Crime Victimization Survey, Cited in Guns Used in Crime, pg.1)
>
>
> ?> From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> > Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 33, Issue 130
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:32:43 -0700
> >
> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill) (g. crabtree)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:32:35 -0700
> > From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> > To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>,
> > <editor at lataheagle.com>, <sslund_2007 at verizon.net>,
> > <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Message-ID: <C59A18DBF48D4D2EA7979BA00C26A041 at gmc>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> > It was created when a musket was the most cutting edge military weapon available. "Machine guns" are already tightly controlled and a legally owned class 3 weapon being used in a violent crime is virtually unheard of. A very impressive statistic when you consider the many thousands of privately owned firearms of this type. The same applies to CWP holders. The long and the short of it is that criminals commit gun crimes and there are all kinds of laws on the books already to address that issue. The law in question (HR 45, HR 1022 and others of similar ilk) are meant to take away some of the rights of law abiding gun owners.
> >
> > g
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: kerry becker
> > To: editor at lataheagle.com ; sslund_2007 at verizon.net ; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> >
> >
> > Yes but wasn't this right created during a time where arms meant muskets not machine guns?
> >
> > Just sayin..
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: editor at lataheagle.com
> > To: sslund_2007 at verizon.net; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:43:04 -0700
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> >
> >
> > Simple.
> > Driving is a privelege.
> > Ownership of firearms is a right.
> > I really don't get what part of that people don't "get".
> > We have law upon law upon law controlling gun ownership, yet idiots who think everyone with a gun is a threat keep passing more and more restrictive laws.
> > Thumbprints? Notification of change of address? A photo kept on file?
> > Why does this bring to mind the sexual offender registry? Don't sexual offenders have a number of similar regulations?
> > At least they got a trial.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Saundra Lund
> > To: 'Kai Eiselein' ; 'Sunil Ramalingam'
> > Cc: 'vision 2020'
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:20 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> >
> >
> > Kai wrote:
> >
> > ?We are headed into brave new world... just like Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and any number of other totalitarian states.?
> >
> >
> >
> > Didn?t we already get there when the same started being required for things like driver?s licenses??? While I?m not up on what your concerns might be with this particular piece of legislation, can you explain why you think the licensing of firearms should be easier than getting a driver?s license?
> >
> >
> >
> > Besides, after the huge erosions of the previous eight years under King George, forgive me if I can?t get too worked up about what seem to be to be common sense changes to the licensing of firearms. Personally, I think gun advocates do themselves a huge disservice and make the issue far more divisive than it needs to be by fighting against common sense changes designed to stop the huge trafficking in illegal firearms.
> >
> >
> >
> > For those interested in reading the full text, here?s a link I hope works:
> >
> > http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, why are you so much more concerned about a bill that?s highly unlikely to pass (IMHO ? there are no co-sponsors) than you are about legislation that can have very real detrimental effects on health care in Idaho and weasle religious beliefs and conscience into the free market to interfer with the doctor-patient relationship?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Saundra Lund
> >
> > Moscow, ID
> >
> >
> >
> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.
> >
> > ~ Edmund Burke
> >
> >
> >
> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2009 through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the author.*****
> >
> >
> >
> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Kai Eiselein
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:05 AM
> > To: Sunil Ramalingam
> > Cc: vision 2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm refering to H.R.45 AKA: Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009
> >
> > Which will require gun purchasers to be licensed, photographed, fingerprinted and notify the government of address changes.
> >
> > We are headed into brave new world... just like Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and any number of other totalitarian states.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Sunil Ramalingam
> >
> > Cc: vision 2020
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:44 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kai,
> >
> > I came up with a blank page when I followed your link. What are you focusing on here?
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> > > From: editor at lataheagle.com
> > > To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com; thansen at moscow.com
> > > Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:42:02 -0700
> > > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> > >
> > > Frankly, I'm more worried about this bill in Congress:
> > > http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH:
> > >
> > > Just one more step on the road to a totalitarian state.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > > Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:20 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] House Bill 216 (Pharmacist Conscience Bill)
> > >
> > >
> > > >A better bill would allow McDonald's workers to refuse to serve those
> > > > who are overweight. I'd love the right to refuse to read papers using
> > > > bad arguments.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Campbell
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Courtesy of the Spokesman Review's blog site.
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Pharmacist conscience bill heads for amendment
> > > >> at 8:04 a.m. on March 18
> > > >>
> > > >> Rep. Tom Loertscher?s bill to give pharmacists or ?any person?
> > > >> the right
> > > >> to refuse to fill a prescription for a patient on the basis of
> > > >> conscience
> > > >> is headed for the House?s amending order, to revise the bill so it a
> > > >> pplies
> > > >> only to pharmacists - not to cashiers, stores, or others. Rep. Lynn
> > > >> Luker,
> > > >> R-Boise, proposed the amendments. ?It?s simply a matter of burden
> > > >> of
> > > >> proof,? he said. ?I don?t think it will change in any way the
> > > >> current
> > > >> practices, because people do have that right.? Emotional testimony o
> > > >> n the
> > > >> bill stretched for two days before it was approved for amendment on
> > > >> a 14-4
> > > >> vote. The testimony included pharmacists and other experts who said
> > > >> Idaho
> > > >> pharmacists already have the right to refuse to fill a prescription;
> > > >> Idaho
> > > >> has no law requiring them to fill all prescriptions. Among those who
> > > >> testified was pharmacist Gloria Hansen, who said, ?I do know that we
> > > >> need
> > > >> to act according to our conscience. .. I lean on the rock which is the
> > > >> lord God.?
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> It is truly a sad day in Idaho for those citizens whose ethics,
> > > >> morals,
> > > >> and religious beliefs differ from those of their pharmacist.
> > > >>
> > > >> Query: If an asthmatic, living in extremely rural Idaho, dependent on
> > > >> inhalers for survival, is refused access to such much-needed
> > > >> inhalers, by
> > > >> his/her pharmacist, because (s)he is gay or his/her
> > > >> ethics/morals/religious beliefs differ from his/her pharmacist's
> > > >> ethics/morals/religious beliefs . . . and the asthmatic dies as a
> > > >> result . . . is the pharmacist guilty of ANYTHING?
> > > >>
> > > >> Seeya round town, Moscow.
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom Hansen
> > > >> Moscow, Idaho
> > > >>
> > > >> Join us at The First Annual Intolerista Wingding, April 17th,
> > > >> featuring
> > > >> Roy Zimmerman and Jeanne McHale. For details go to . . .
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.MoscowCares.com/Wingding
> > > >>
> > > >> Seeya
> > > >> there.
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------
> > > >> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > > >> http://www.fsr.com/
> > > >>
> > > >>
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