[Vision2020] Walmart Gets Nod for Starting Work

[Donovan Arnold]

Garrett writes:

"If Walmart didn't do what they do, others would jump in because of the complacency of people like Donovan."

I am not complacent Garrett. Quiet the opposite. I actively support Wal-Mart. I like Wal-Mart and what it does for people. It gives higher wages and jobs to people. It creates better working standards for poor production workers. It gives a higher standard of living for 1/2 the country. 

I know you don't see it that way. But the reality is, Wal-Mart pays a higher wage than Win-Co. It highers people that would otherwise be unemployed. It offers lower prices so poor families can afford to have things they would never otherwise have, such as unused clothing and needed medications. 

I can tell that you have a very limited understanding of how the market place works. You don't understand why Wal-Mart cannot raise its wages. You don't understand how profit and production works. You have a narrow view of things. 

You can hate your neighbors, and deny them water. But I don't think you will be successful in stopping you neighbor from getting water, or from others helping others and improving the quality of life for everyone, as Wal-Mart does. 

Best Regards,

Donovan 

--- On Mon, 3/9/09, Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net> wrote:
From: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Walmart Gets Nod for Starting Work
To: vision2020 at moscow.com, donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 6:03 PM

Donovan writes:

"I am not aware of any job that Moscow is willing to accept unless it is
not supported by taxes."


I'm not quite sure how to interpret that, but it seems like it would be an
exaggeration any way you might read it.

Yeah, Donovan, I hate jobs. Nobody should work. We all should just do nothing,
and wait for Walmart to bail us out.


But seriously...

Walmart is just the biggest exploiter. Obviously the way things are set up with
trade laws and the like, corporations are given more value over people, and are
basically able to do what they want if they convince the powers that be how good
they are. If Walmart didn't do what they do, others would jump in because of
the complacency of people like Donovan. I'm sure Walmart does some good, but
I doubt it outweighs the negative effect they have.

You have every right to spend your money at Walmart. That doesn't mean
those of us who are concerned about the Walmart affect are going to roll over
and let them build where ever they want. It seems that those who do speak out
probably will make Walmart do more good stuff than if nobody said anything, at
the very least.

The Waltons could easily raise the salaries of their employees, instead of
raking it in themselves. After all, its their employees who keep their operation
going. It reminds me of WSU's President Floyd who makes over $600,000 per
year, while the people who do the work to keep WSU going make a whole lot less,
and have to worry about salary freezes and job cuts. It's totally out of
balance.

Walmart is responsible for about 10% of the US trade deficit with China.
"Wal-Mart alone is responsible for the loss of nearly 200,000 U.S. jobs due
to its own growing trade deficits with China" from
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/ib235/ (all kinds of interesting info is
found there)

The more we import, the more jobs we lose. That's the bottom line. You get
more cheap stuff (with a higher probability that it's toxic), but you drive
down wages in the US while losing the manufacturing base. That seems incredibly
short-sighted.

So I could say Walmart promoters hate good-paying American jobs and want us all
to be paid meager wages, but I'm sure that would be an exageration, too.

I don't blame Walmart for what they are doing. They are just using
capitalism and the political system to become more profitable. Shareholders are
responsible for steering their behavior, but it is the people who shop at
Walmart who in essence vote to support Walmart, and give them a green light to
continue to grow in what seems like at any cost.

The economic fiasco we face didn't start in a vacuum. It's all a
reflection of living beyond our means, and specific trade policies that tilted
the balance towards the rich. It's consumers, though, who drove it home, and
now everybody will pay. Promoting Walmart will only make things worse.

gclev



--- On Mon, 3/9/09, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Walmart Gets Nod for Starting Work
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com, garrettmc at verizon.net
> Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 5:44 PM
> Garrett,
> 
> Wal-Mart isn't exploiting anyone anymore than anyone
> else. All your crap is made in China, not just the stuff you
> pull off the Wal-Mart shelf. Wal-Mart doesn't pollute
> anymore than any other business. Wal-mart pays the same or
> better than other retailers. 
> 
> The fact that Wal-Mart sales are increasing as people get
> poor should tell you how vital is in providing jobs and
> services to the poor and disadvantaged than anyone else. 
> 
> Wal-Mart isn't perfect. I don't think any business
> is. But it doesn't do anything its competition
> doesn't do. It does lots of good things as well, such as
> providing jobs, affordable goods, jobs for people others
> won't hire, it has drastically reduced the costs of over
> 200 prescription medications to $4, it helped find 1000s of
> missing and lost children, It donates billions to charitable
> causes. It doesn't waste millions on luxury for
> managers. 
> 
> Tryng to blame Wal-Mart for Chinese labor laws and US trade
> agreements with China is misguided. If Wal-Mart stopped
> buying from China the conditions in China would worsen, not
> better, and Wal-Mart's competitors would gladly use
> those same factories to eventually drive Wal-Mart out of
> business. Wal-Mart is working within the system that the US
> and China has created. 
> 
> Your opposition to Wal-Mart has not stopped them. It has
> only just moved the jobs, taxes, and resources to Pullman,
> because they know Wal-Mart is actually more of a blessing
> than curse despite its problems. 
> 
> I think it is the intention of some of Moscow's
> residents to drive all the jobs it can over to Pullman or
> out of Moscow. I am not aware of any job that Moscow is
> willing to accept unless it is not supported by taxes. 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Donovan
> 
> --- On Mon, 3/9/09, Garrett Clevenger
> <garrettmc at verizon.net> wrote:
> From: Garrett Clevenger <garrettmc at verizon.net>
> Subject: [Vision2020] Walmart Gets Nod for Starting Work
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 11:00 AM
> 
> Donovan satirizes:
> 
> "Now is the time to demand impossible standards of
> employers, and be as
> picky as possible about the kind of jobs we want."
> 
> 
> Yes, let's bend over backwards for the Waltons. Instead
> of them relying on
> cheap labor in China, let's give them cheap labor here
> in Moscow! We need
> the jobs, after all, and who cares if we pollute the water
> manufacturing cheap
> stuff. At least Americans won't put toxins in stuff
> they'll sell to
> other Americans, right? We'll keep stuff even cheaper
> saving on fuel costs
> since we won't have to transport it half way round the
> world.
> 
> Yes, I want Walmart to keep growing and growing until all
> that's left are
> Walmart stores because their quality is sooo good, I
> don't really want
> accountability, and I love the Waltons so much I think they
> deserve a few more
> billion dollars. Who needs to make more than a couple bucks
> a day, anyway?
> 
> 
> But seriously...
> 
> Walmarts sales are up 6.5% compareded to last year. The
> irony is, as people get
> poorer, they need cheaper things, and they're less
> likely to care why things
> are so cheap, and who's making the majority of the $$$.
> A terrible downward
> spiral.
> 
> Many people don't know or care that the family who owns
> Walmart is one of
> the richest families on the planet. As of last September, 4
> of the top 10 riches
> Americans are Waltons on Forbes Riches Americans list, with
> a total net worth of
> almost $100 billion.
> 
> According to
> http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/54/400list08_Jim-Walton_JI38.html
> 
> Wal-Mart is the world's largest retailer: 7,300 stores,
> 2 million employees
> serve 200 million customers. Sales: $378 billion
> 
> 
> Walmart may provide jobs in their ever-expanding business,
> and insure we have
> cheap stuff, but at what cost?
> 
> In order for the Waltons to become super-billionaires, most
> other people are
> losing out. There is a finite amount of wealth and
> resources, so to think that
> the Waltons could amass such wealth without causing other
> people to loss money
> is idiotic.
> 
> Someone has to pay for their billions, and while they may
> provide cheap stuff
> for the poor people they exploit, they are causing an
> unsustainable trade
> deficit supporting foreign companies that have lax labor
> and environmental laws
> who sell to Walmart toxic toys and food that Walmart then
> pushes on to poor
> Americans who in turn help cause the downfall of smaller,
> family-owned and
> independent stores, who can't sell as cheap stuff
> because they don't
> have the buying power, they actually try to pay their
> employees a living wage
> and they don't have the political clout to gain
> tax-breaks from towns so
> desperate to create jobs and have cheap stuff that they are
> willing to sacrifice
> downtowns to the holy Walton empire who will then be able
> to hire Americans
> because in order to compete with foreign labor we now are
> willing to work for
> nothing in polluted environments. Who needs high standards,
> anyway!
> 
> I can accept that if you don't know that the Waltons
> are exploiting people
> to make their billions you might support them, but if
> you're smart enough to
> put two and two together and give your money to Walmart,
> you are culpable in
> allowing Walmart to continue to drive American wages down,
> and possibly lower
> our labor and environmental standards in order to compete.
> 
> It seems rather selfish that in order to maintain access to
> addictive cheap
> stuff some would sacrifice the overall security of our
> country. Thus why the
> rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. 
> 
> Fight for the right of poor people to have access to cheap
> stuff with one hand,
> drive the stake into the heart of poor people with the
> other. How ironic!
> 
> Now is exactly the time to start building the foundation of
> a new economic
> model, not continue to pour trillions into what obviously
> is a discredited
> system with Walmart leading the charge. (Charge it to
> future generations, that
> is...)
> 
> gclev
> 
> 
> 
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