[Vision2020] Public Smoking

bear at moscow.com bear at moscow.com
Sun Jun 21 09:57:31 PDT 2009


Joe,

I agree that the council will most likely pass the legislation, otherwise
why would they have had the Eagle Idaho legislation BEFORE the concerned
citizen ever got up to speak? I don't have any hope that they are looking
for an alternative, as passing regulatory legislation is the easy way for
most politicians.

It's all a mater of control as I see it and the solution will be at
election time. For instance, do you not think that two of the local
luminaries will have to explain why they needed city funds to fight a
citizen request for e-mails under the open records act when they come up
for re-election?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that laws should be avoided when possible. But that suggests
> another solution, which first requires that one sees that there is a
> problem.
>
> I don't see why you expert market forces to change anything. They
> haven't done it so far. Again this "solution" suggests that there is
> no problem to begin with.
>
> And maybe there isn't! But in the end it doesn't matter what you or I
> think. It matters what the council and mayor think. I wouldn't be
> surprised to find them sympathetic to a ban. I'm not saying I expect
> it but it wouldn't surprise me. Unless of course they find a better
> solution. I'm pretty convinced that most of them do think it is a
> problem.
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Jun 21, 2009, at 9:07 AM, bear at moscow.com wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> My point has always been, and still is, we don't need a local law. The
>> market forces will make the necessary changes if they need to take
>> place.
>> People can make choices IF THEY HAVE THEM. What this local legislation
>> will do is take away choice.
>>
>> In this case, if you don't want to service equipment in a smoking
>> establishment, don't.
>> If you don't like smoke in an establishment, then don't go there.
>> If you don't like smoke in an establishment, don't work there.
>>
>> BUT, it boils down to choice.
>>
>> What I've heard on here is that folks want the benefits of these
>> establishments, but want it their way, not the way the owners of the
>> establishments have set them up and run them.
>> They have a choice.
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Bear,
>>>
>>> I'm not a regulator. I'm not sure what side to take in this issue
>>> since I see good arguments on both sides. But I can't help but
>>> comment
>>> when I see a bad argument and the "choice" argument promoted by you
>>> and Kai and others strikes me as a bad argument. If it were a good
>>> argument, it would work against government regulation of any kind but
>>> it doesn't.
>>>
>>> Joe Campbell
>>>
>>> On Jun 21, 2009, at 8:36 AM, bear at moscow.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kai,
>>>>
>>>> I have a feeling that nothing we can say, or even try to enter
>>>> into a
>>>> discussion where alternatives, will please the "Regulators"!
>>>>
>>>> They will find all sorts of "straw men" to throw out, like the
>>>> service
>>>> persons having to come in (they aren't forced to fix equipment by
>>>> the
>>>> way), and I love the insurance argument!  How many waiters and
>>>> waitresses
>>>> even get insurance?
>>>>
>>>> There are many dangers in every occupation, and they have a CHOICE.
>>>> What
>>>> the "Regulators" are really annoyed about is that they can't control
>>>> everything (yet) so they will chip away and chip away. Hell, they
>>>> aren't
>>>> happy with the state law allowing exceptions to the "Idaho Clean Air
>>>> Act",
>>>> so they will chip away where and when they can.
>>>>
>>>> Mostly, I vote with my wallet on these issues. (And I vote at the
>>>> poles
>>>> during elections) IF a place bothers me, I don't go there. The
>>>> "Regulators" aren't happy with that choice. Rather than not go to an
>>>> establishment where the smoking is allowed under State Law, they
>>>> want the
>>>> establishment to change via imposed legislation from the city
>>>> council.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> I actually excpected an answer like Mike's.
>>>>> So, how often are "others" in a bar during the bar's "operating
>>>>> hours"?
>>>>> They don't operate on a "9-5" schedule.
>>>>> Most, if not all, of the maintainance, repairs and deliveries are
>>>>> made
>>>>> while the joint is closed.
>>>>> So, it would seem that Mike's response is the true "straw man".
>>>>> There was nothing dismissive, people were whining about those who
>>>>> are
>>>>> employed at smoking establishments. I made a reasonable suggestion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>              http://www.fsr.net
>>>>         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>
>>
>




More information about the Vision2020 mailing list