[Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Wed Jul 15 20:10:46 PDT 2009
This is an empirical issue. How have military leaders, or those who
have served, done as political leaders?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:52 PM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
> Sue,
>
> You don't see a connection between exercising power and earning the
> right to exercise power in service to your country?
>
> And while it has nothing to do with the smoking issue per say, it has
> everything to do with qualifications to exercise power.
>
>
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> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Sue Hovey wrote:
>
>> Then I owe Tom an apology. And I do apologize, Tom. When I read
>> the emails, I did not see the W below the message and simply
>> inferred it was Tom's response. It was to you, Bear, I should have
>> sent my reply. And so I do that now. You tie legitimacy to make a
>> decision to "give up rights" as valid only if the policy maker has
>> fought for those rights as a military veteran. The Roderick email
>> certainly sends the same message. If a person is not supposed to
>> draw that inference then I see no reason for either you or the
>> Rodericks to bring into play the issue of veteran status.
>>
>> Sue
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bear at moscow.com>
>> To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> Cc: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>; "Shelley Roderick" <cjsnightclub at cableone.net
>>> ; "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Sue,
>>>
>>> Tom wasn't the one who asked about the veteran status of the current
>>> council, I did, and Dan Carscallen answered me and said that 2 of
>>> the
>>> current members are and that he's not one of the two. Wayne Krauss
>>> is one
>>> of the two and lists it on his bio on the Moscow City Council site.
>>>
>>> And the reason I asked was to see if those so willing to give up
>>> rights
>>> and make the rules ever had to defend them. I think that it amazing
>>> that
>>> while I could get a cup of coffee and have a cigarette in Bosnia,
>>> Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Romania, Albania and several other
>>> countries, I
>>> soon may not be able to in my own home town.
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
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>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Are you saying that one has to be a veteran to make solid
>>>> decisions? Or
>>>> if
>>>> one is not a veteran and makes a decision with which you do not
>>>> agree,
>>>> their
>>>> decision is somehow less than valid because of their lack of
>>>> veteran
>>>> status?
>>>>
>>>> Sue H.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> To: "Shelley Roderick" <cjsnightclub at cableone.net>
>>>> Cc: "v2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just a simple question that deserves a simple, yet civil, answer
>>>> like
>>>> "yes" or "no".
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>>> Tom - Why don't you call them and ask?
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of you that wish to contact Moscow city council via
>>>>> email,
>>>>> here
>>>>> is
>>>>> how you can email all council members directly with only one
>>>>> email.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Go to: www.moscow.id.us/
>>>>> 2) Click on the blue "council" tab.
>>>>> 3) Click on "meet the council."
>>>>> 4) Click on "Email all council members" at the bottom of the page.
>>>>> 5) To be valid, include your full name and address for the record.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------Original Message-------
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Tom Hansen
>>>>> Date: 7/14/2009 3:02:03 PM
>>>>> To: bear at moscow.com
>>>>> Cc: v2020
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] An open letter to Moscow city council
>>>>>
>>>>> Was this email really sent to the city council?
>>>>>
>>>>> The only address on it is Vision 2020.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscoa, Idaho
>>>>>
>>>>>> Visionaries,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Phil's letter below, and am hoping the listees can
>>>>>> give me
>>>>>> some information in regards to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How many members of the current administration are veterans?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> W
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ---
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>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ATTENTION: YOU ARE ENTERING A SMOKE FILLED ENVIRONMENT AND WILL
>>>>>>> BE
>>>>>>> SUBJECT
>>>>>>> TO SECOND HAND SMOKE! ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! THIS
>>>>>>> ESTABLISHMENT COULD
>>>>>>> BE
>>>>>>> HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Twenty generations have sacrificed loved ones to fight for the
>>>>>>> freedoms
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> which we are able to enjoy today. It is very sad to me when a
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> handful
>>>>>>> of people representing our city can take the blood that was
>>>>>>> shed and
>>>>>>> ignore
>>>>>>> the sacrifices made to insure our right to, "life, liberty and
>>>>>>> happiness."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have flown an American flag on my building since I bought it
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> respect the blood, sweat and tears that allow me to do so. The
>>>>>>> city
>>>>>>> council
>>>>>>> should also respect and honor the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The city should agree with the Federal Government that when a
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> turns
>>>>>>> the age of 21, they have a mental capacity to make sound
>>>>>>> decisions and
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be held responsible for those decisions in a court of law. This
>>>>>>> includes
>>>>>>> their health. The city should not impose their "personal
>>>>>>> guidance" to
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> who have just obtained the privilege of choice. They do not
>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> baby
>>>>>>> sit
>>>>>>> However, they should be babysitting where smoking is allowed.
>>>>>>> Where
>>>>>>> children walk our sidewalks and play in city parks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In regards to "employee health," No one is forced to work in a
>>>>>>> smoked
>>>>>>> filled
>>>>>>> environment. They came looking for a job. If they find it is
>>>>>>> not for
>>>>>>> them,
>>>>>>> they have the right of freedom to work elsewhere. The customer
>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>> to walk in my doors, or not. They even have the right to leave
>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>> inside.
>>>>>>> Liberty of choice and free will granted to us from the blood of
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> forefathers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first thing I see when I walk into city hall is a United
>>>>>>> States
>>>>>>> flag.
>>>>>>> The last thing I see when I leave city hall is a United States
>>>>>>> flag.
>>>>>>> Let's
>>>>>>> not loose what that flag stands for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the city agrees to this smoking ban I would like to suggest
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> consider an ordinance stopping the farmers from farming as it
>>>>>>> blows
>>>>>>> dust
>>>>>>> that I breathe that causes my asthma to flare up. Talk about a
>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>> issue!
>>>>>>> How about bringing it up to vote when approximately 60% of
>>>>>>> Moscow's
>>>>>>> citizens
>>>>>>> are back in town? Let the citizens of Moscow decide. Give them
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> opportunity to voice an opinion on their own freedoms and
>>>>>>> liberties.
>>>>>>> Let
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> majority decide. Not a handful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1/3 of the bars in Moscow are non-smoking by choice. The city
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> interfere with the liberties of other bars and private clubs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You ask why other bar owners are not speaking up? How about
>>>>>>> listening
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> ones that are. I believe in fighting for the rights and
>>>>>>> liberties of
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> 24
>>>>>>> employees and thousands of customers that choose to walk
>>>>>>> through my
>>>>>>> doors.
>>>>>>> They count on me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Parks, who introduced this ordinance states, "it is a work
>>>>>>> place,
>>>>>>> health issue. The only place we allow really dangerous things
>>>>>>> is in
>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>> hand smoke." Well, how about coal mines? Gas refineries? Plastic
>>>>>>> manufacturers? Paint fumes? As I understand, his company
>>>>>>> manufactures
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> builds thing in Mexico. He pays his workers in pesos. Why isn't
>>>>>>> Moscow
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>> enough for him to employ and manufacture his wares here? Could
>>>>>>> it be
>>>>>>> government enforced workman's comp? Minimum wage? Social
>>>>>>> Security
>>>>>>> taxes?
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> to forget the OSHA laws which are not enforced in Mexico? Why
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> Parks
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> you choose to have your companies in Mexico? I can tell you
>>>>>>> why I
>>>>>>> choose
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> have mine in Moscow, Idaho.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The chains of slavery on business were cut in 1776. Let's not
>>>>>>> put them
>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let freedom ring.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil Roderick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cjs
>>>>>>> @turbonet
>>>>>>> .com=======================================================
>>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
>>>>> to
>>>>> change
>>>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>>>
>>>>> - Unknown
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it
>>>> to change
>>>> and the Realist adjusts his sails."
>>>>
>>>> - Unknown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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