[Vision2020] Fw: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!

[Darrell Keim]

Good catch-I meant secular.  Other comments interspersed below:

2009/1/29 Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>:
> Darrell Keim keim153 at gmail.com wrote:
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2009-January/061064.html
>
> Scouting secularity-I can see some folks having an issue with a requirement
> of belief in
> God.  Beyond that-they are non-secular.  They don't care which god you
> worship.
> ------------------------
> I assume you meant to write "Beyond that-they are secular" not "non-secular"
> given that being secular implies not enforcing any particular religious
> belief.  But you still imply a belief in some sort of God when your write
> "They don't care which God you worship."  What if it is Nature itself that
> you "worship," not a "God? "

I've not seen the BSA make any effort to define what a "God" is.  That
is left completely up to the individual.

>After all, people are a part of Nature, a
> subset, if you will, and the continuing insistence we are not is perhaps one
> of the greatest human illusions.  The science of biology, ecology and
> genetics is revealing more and more just how much humanity is a result of
> the evolution of life on Earth over billions of years... but I digress.
>
> The first sentence of the post starting this thread, quoting Seth Norman, is
> clearly false, if describing the beliefs of the people of the US.  Most
> people in the US do not "figure out that it's people, not nature, who create
> morality, values, ethics..."  In fact, most people believe that
> "...morality, values, ethics..." are derived from God and Biblical
> Scripture, not people.  To claim that "it's people, ... , who create
> morality, values, ethics..." is a belief that many would label "atheist or
> agnostic secular humanism" and is often objected to vehemently.

I don't think I've said anything about this.  I think you must be
quoting from a different poster.
>
> Regarding this thread's discussion of Scouting, and whether it is "secular"
> or not, youth in the Boy or Girl Scouts who consistently insist that God is
> not the source of their "morality, values, ethics" but people (or Nature,
> for that matter) would often be facing peer and adult pressure to modify or
> tone down their ethical epistemology,

Oddly enough, I haven't seen a lot of Scout youth engaged in deep
religious and philosophical discussions.  But, we both know the BSA
stance on atheism.  They do believe that some sort of belief system is
a fundamental part of morality, etc.

>just as youth in the public schools
> who insist on not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, with its reference to
> "one nation under God," can face similar pressure:
>
> Boy Scout Oath
>
> On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country
> ----
> So is this oath not taken in the Scouting groups you refer to below?:

Of course, you know they still use the Scout Oath.  My point was not
that Scouting is not religious-that would be patently false.  My point
is that how religious a troop is (and, indeed, what religion if any is
emphasized) varies from troop to troop, and leader to leader.  The
closest some groups come to being religious is when they say the Scout
Oath.  And, as I said before, others strongly emphasize prayer and
worship.

One size truly does not fit all with Scouting.  Every troop is a
product of the volunteers running it, and what they want it to be.
I've seen very religous, and almost non-religous.  I've also seen
atheist and homosexual parents with kids in local groups, and they
seemed very content.  Every Scouting group is different in how it is
run, and the elements of the program they choose to highlight.
>
> Darrell Keim keim153 at gmail.com  wrote:
>
> Here in the M-P area we have some groups that pray during every meeting,
> and others that don't deal with religion at all-preferring to let
> families deal with that topic.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The quote below concerns the Pledge of Allegiance as recited in US public
> schools, but I think the reasoning applies to the Boy Scout Oath also in
> some respects:
>
> http://www.religioustolerance.org/news_02jun.htm
>
> They declared the Pledge to be unconstitutional because of the words "under
> God" which were added to the Pledge in 1954. They ruled that the phrase
> implies a government endorsement of religion, in violation of the
> Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Judge
> Alfred T. Goodwin wrote: "A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is
> identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a
> nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a
> nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with
> respect to religion." He also wrote that an atheist or a believer of certain
> non-Judeo-Christian beliefs could view the Pledge as an attempt to "enforce
> a 'religious orthodoxy' of monotheism."
> -----------------------------------
> Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
>
> On 1/29/09, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>
>> -----Original message-----
>>
>> From: "Crapo News Release (Crapo)" newsclips at crapo.senate.gov
>> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:11:13 -0800
>> To:
>> Subject: [Spam 5.86] BE OUTSIDE!
>>
>> FOR RELEASE
>> CONTACT:           Susan Wheeler (202) 224-5150
>> Week of February 1, 2008
>> Laura Thurston Goodroe (202) 224-7500
>>
>>                                BE OUTSIDE!
>>                Guest opinion submitted by Idaho Senator Mike Crapo
>>
>> "Eventually, most of us figure out that it's people, not nature, who
>> create morality, values, ethics-and even the idea that nature itself is
>> something worth preserving.  We choose to be shepherds and stewards, or we
>> don't...We will live wisely-preserving water and air and everything else
>> intrinsic to the equation we're only beginning to understand-or we won't, in
>> which case Nature will fill the vacuum when we leave."
>> --Seth Norman, in Richard Louv's "Last Child in the Woods" (2006)
>>
>> In "Last Child in the Woods," author Richard Louv outlines negative
>> consequences of a generation of children growing up more removed from the
>> outdoors than their parents and grandparents.  Not only does this threaten
>> our heritage of respect for and understanding of our natural resources, but
>> studies show that, in children, there a strong correlation between playing
>> outdoors and healthy minds and bodies.  In fact, studies have shown that
>> more brain learning occurs when children are outside interacting with nature
>> than when they watch television.
>>
>> Over the past few years, a nationwide grassroots movement has arisen in
>> response to Louv's book, called the Children in Nature Network.  Idaho has
>> taken a lead in promoting this, creating a multi-partner, multi-stakeholder
>> coalition called the Idaho Children in Nature Network (ICNN).  I am proud to
>> join Governor and Mrs. Otter, the administrations and faculty of Boise State
>> University and University of Idaho, agencies, businesses, schools and
>> individuals across Idaho in promoting this important effort to get Idaho's
>> children outside.  ICNN's "Be Outside" campaign kicks off on January 30.
>>
>> Growing up in southeastern Idaho, I learned about the outdoors while
>> hunting and fishing with family and friends.  As a father, I've spent time
>> with my children, doing the same activities.  Being outside is critical for
>> children.  More young people are obese and suffer from diabetes and
>> depression than ever before.  Symptoms of attention deficit disorders are
>> widespread, affecting children at school and home.   Studies are reinforcing
>> what many of us, our parents and grandparents know:  getting kids outside
>> improves overall wellness, keeping children more physically fit and reducing
>> symptoms of depression and attention disorders.  The natural world has many
>> lessons to teach children, from the cycle of life and death to a better
>> understanding of our place in this world.
>>
>> While organized youth sports are vital to communities and provide valuable
>> exercise and socialization opportunities for children, the focus of "Be
>> Outside" is to get kids outdoors in unstructured play-interacting with
>> nature:  trees, water, rocks and, yes, even dirt!  ICNN includes over 100
>> diverse agencies, organizations and private citizens coming together to
>> "connect children with nature in Idaho, from backyards to
>> mountaintops."  The coalition includes partners from education, health care,
>> sportsmen and women, outdoor recreation, conservation, local, state and
>> federal agencies, community leaders and businesses.  The coalition will work
>> to improve integration of environmental education and create public-private
>> partnerships to harness resources and foster cooperation, while emphasizing
>> Idaho's unique outdoor heritage.  The end goal:  to improve our children's
>> well-being and encourage a lifelong appreciation and respect for our great
>> outdoors.  This is one of the best ways!
>> to
>> ensure long term environmental stewardship.
>>
>> Getting kids outside can be a simple as having them play in the backyard,
>> park or open space.  Working together to provide opportunities beyond that
>> only increases the positive outcomes.  Many Idaho children are raised to
>> appreciate the outdoors; the goal of "Be Outside" is to provide even more
>> children with these opportunities.
>>
>> This winter, and in the coming spring, summer and beyond, I hope you find
>> time to "Be Outside" with the children in your life.
>>
>> WORD COUNT: 599
>>
>