[Vision2020] Costs for UI Email/Lawsuit
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Jan 22 06:30:07 PST 2009
Donovan,
You don't know what you are talking about.
Joe Campbell
On Jan 21, 2009, at 9:43 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> Students own and pay for the use of the computers. So they are
> entitled to use them in any legal manner they wish that ASUI decides.
>
> Faculty and Staff do not pay for the computers, or own them, but are
> entitled to use the computers, but only in a manner in agreement
> with ASUI and the UI administration. Personal use is expressly
> forbidden in that contract.
>
> You ask for evidence of personal use of ASUI computers to do
> personal business? There are numerous emails alone on Vision2020
> using emails accounts. This is evidence.
>
> I am not going to name names, but I think we are all aware that
> faculty and staff here on the V have used UI accounts to post
> personal messages. I would imagine many of the 2000 staff and
> faculty on campus also do.
>
> If they are using a computer against their contract, they are
> misusing it, and it is costing the students money. Unless you think
> computers is free? Someone is paying for it, and that someone is the
> ASUI.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donovan
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 1/21/09, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Costs for UI Email/Lawsuit
> To: "donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com
> >
> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 9:08 PM
>
> The same would apply to students right? Or do they get to use it for
> what ever purpose they wish? Do you really think that faculty and
> staff "misuse" computers more than students?
>
> And what constitutes "misuse"? What do you think the incidence of
> misuse is by faculty? By staff? By students?
>
> I reset the continual unsupported accusations by you and others
> which suggest that the over worked and underpaid faculty at UI and
> WSU are somehow acting irresponsibly. Give me ONE piece of evidence
> to suggest that there is a legitimate problem here other than some
> hypothetical worry of your own. Be more responsible with your words,
> please!
>
> Joe Campbell
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 8:23 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Some of you seem to not know that it costs the students in fees for
>> bandwidth and the computers that are used at the UI. Every year
>> students have to pay an increase for all the use of computers,
>> which are owned by the ASUI, the repair, and maintenance comes
>> directly out of the students pocket.
>>
>> It is wrong to use the computers and the resources at UI for
>> personal use unless you are a student paying for the services and
>> resources or an employee using it for official use.
>>
>> Computers, monitors, paper, printers, bandwidth, keyboards, wires,
>> power, technical support for use and maintenance support all costs
>> the students money. If UI employees are using the equipment for
>> personal use, especially when they should be working, they are
>> taking from the students.
>>
>> How much money is that, I don't know, but it doesn't matter how
>> much you are stealing, you are still stealing.
>>
>> I know students cannot always get access to a computer and have to
>> deal with a slowed computer because there is not enough computers
>> and bandwidth. I also know that students also have to wait to get
>> assistance for technical support, and that students cannot get
>> certain types of equipment because there is not enough money.
>>
>> I can testify to the fact that students had to divert money to
>> repair their soccer ball field to increase bandwidth for the
>> students because it was overstressed.
>>
>> So yes, faculty and staff that do use university computers for
>> personal use do impact, in a negative way, student life and costs.
>>
>> ASUI should require faculty and staff that want to use ASUI
>> computers for personal use to pay the same fees as the rest of the
>> public.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Donovan
>>
>> --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> To: "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> Cc: "<vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>" <vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >
>> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 5:17 PM
>>
>> I never said that because there is no cost involved it is not wrong
>> to
>> use university resources. I was responding to arguments suggesting
>> that it was wrong because of the costs involved. That can't be why it
>> is wrong -- if it is wrong -- since there are no costs.
>>
>> Joe Campbell
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2009, at 12:32 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Joe
>> > I enjoyed your discussion with Chas and Keely on communion and
>> > religion. For the most part I agree with you on the.
>> > I am somewhat confused though with your position on the use of
>> > university computers. Just because there is not a cost involved
>> does
>> > not mean that it is still not wrong. university computer should
>> not
>> > be used to promote a political point ow view.
>> > Roger
>> > -----Original message-----
>> > From: Joe Campbell philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>> > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:58:52 -0800
>> > To: "g. crabtree" jampot at roadrunner.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >
>> >> It wasn't an argument. It was a reply to an argument Donovan gave
>> and
>> >> you gave before that. Your initial post talked about "taxpayer
>> >> resources." My question/reply was written in response to that. In
>> >> response, you shifted to a new argument. Before responding to
>> it, I
>> >> want to know if you think that your last comment is the basis
>> for the
>> >> Bigot Guy's lawsuit, or if you plan to switch to some new reason
>> once
>> >> I rebut it.
>> >>
>> >> And what the heck is "taxpayer time"? Am I using taxpayer
>> time now
>> >> just because I work for the state?
>> >>
>> >> Lastly, you wrote in support of Bigot Guy even though you admit
>> below
>> >> that you don't know the basis of the lawsuit. But my claim that
>> you
>> >> are a shill was offbase because ...?
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:31 AM, "g. crabtree"
>> <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Once again I'm confused. I thought I was directly addressing
>> your
>> >>> argument. Perhaps I misunderstood. It looked to me as though you
>> >>> were trying to assert that since no one had yet to attach a
>> dollar
>> >>> value to the matter that "it is not clear what the worry is
>> about."
>> >>> I was merely pointing out a potential flaw in that line of
>> >>> reasoning.
>> >>>
>> >>> For the record, I have no idea of the specifics of Mr. Glasebooks
>> >>> complaint. I have not spoken to him or anyone else about the
>> matter.
>> >>> My point is, was, and will continue to be that IF a university
>> >>> employee was using taxpayer time and resources to advance a
>> personal
>> >>> agenda then a private citizen is well within their rights to
>> bring
>> >>> the matter up and have it addressed. Period.
>> >>>
>> >>> g
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: Joe Campbell
>> >>> To: g. crabtree
>> >>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:31 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >>>
>> >>> Like always, you are now changing the argument from the one
>> that I
>> >>> was commenting on, the one you gave originally. Are you now
>> claiming
>> >>> that this is the basis of the Bigot Guy's lawsuit?
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 7:45 AM, "g. crabtree"
>> <jampot at roadrunner.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Lets have a look at the potential "wrong reasons:"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1. Anti Wal-Mart? Great, no problem
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2. Anti corporate? Swell
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 3. Anti capitalism? Dandy
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 4. Anti religion? Fine
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 5. Anti Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Muslim? Well....
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 6. Anti Black, Brown, Yellow? Now wait a minute...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 7. Anti abortion? Stop right there! Now you've gone to
>> far!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> None of these web sites would cost the tax payer any more then
>> the
>> >>>> other. Since we can't attach a dollar value to any of
>> these, I
>> >>>> guess that it's not clear what the worry is about.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> g
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: Joe Campbell
>> >>>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> >>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:13 AM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Suppose someone used a UI website for the "wrong"
>> reasons. What is
>> >>>> the cost in actual dollars to the tax payer? If you can't
>> put a
>> >>>> number on it it is not clear what the worry is about.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Donovan Arnold
>> <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Keely,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It might be that some members of Christ Church feel they
>> have been
>> >>>>> unjustly attacked with the illegal and improper use of UI
>> property
>> >>>>> by some of its employees and want to prevent it from
>> occurring
>> >>>>> again. Which I think is understandable. Nobody wants their
>> taxes
>> >>>>> to be used against them in biased way. There is lots of
>> evidence
>> >>>>> that UI employees have used UI property improperly for
>> personal
>> >>>>> use. So it would be wise to start there, in my opinion.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't agree with this avenue to stop this behavior
>> though. In
>> >>>>> part because even if true, it isn't costly or
>> inconvenient to move
>> >>>>> off UI's network and get the same services for free or
>> easy
>> >>>>> somewhere else. And since little financial harm was done
>> to the
>> >>>>> person filing the complaint, it won't get anyone any
>> money except
>> >>>>> the lawyers.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best Regards,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Donovan
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix
>> <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >>>>> To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, godshatter at yahoo.com,
>> josephc at wsu.edu
>> >>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 2:46 PM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The great WalMart debate, Donovan, is not likely to be
>> solved here
>> >>>>> on Vision, and certainly not by me. My point was that it
>> seems an
>> >>>>> odd subject for such intense Christ Church involvement and
>> >>>>> enthusiasm.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Keely
>> >>>>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:30:00 -0800
>> >>>>> From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >>>>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com; josephc at wsu.edu;
>> kjajmix1 at msn.com
>> >>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Keely,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think a lot of people like Wal-Mart because it provides
>> jobs to
>> >>>>> people that have a hard time getting jobs elsewhere. It
>> provides
>> >>>>> disposable goods at a price more affordable to people with
>> lower
>> >>>>> incomes. And they like the idea of free enterprise.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I understand many of people's objections to Wal-Mart.
>> I just don't
>> >>>>> understand why the people that object to Wal-Mart cannot
>> >>>>> understand they do good too, and are not lot a whole
>> different
>> >>>>> than other super chain stores in the country. They are
>> just bigger
>> >>>>> and cheaper, most the time.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best Regards,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Donovan
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, keely emerinemix
>> <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> From: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >>>>> To: godshatter at yahoo.com, josephc at wsu.edu
>> >>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 12:39 PM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Isn't the main question here something along the lines
>> of "why in
>> >>>>> God's name would a church organization's
>> leadership be so
>> >>>>> intensely drawn to a Super WalMart store on the
>> Palouse?"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Or, conversely, "Why in God's name would a church
>> organization's
>> >>>>> leadership, in their desire to welcome a Super WalMart, be
>> so
>> >>>>> aggressively snotty toward those who disagree?"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Keely
>> >>>>> http://keely-prevailingwinds.blogspot.com/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:44:58 -0800
>> >>>>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>> >>>>>> To: josephc at wsu.edu
>> >>>>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack . . .
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The current nosuperwalmart.com site doesn't appear
>> to be hosted
>> >>>>> by the U
>> >>>>>> of I. I was wondering if there was an employee page
>> that
>> >>>>> preceded the
>> >>>>>> domain name or something.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> If the University is not hosting the site, then the
>> complaint
>> >>>>> must be
>> >>>>>> that an employee of the University worked on it. If
>> they were
>> >>>>> told to
>> >>>>>> work on it as normal performance of their duties,
>> that's one
>> >>>>> thing. If
>> >>>>>> the employee was working on it using University
>> computers and/or
>> >>>>> during
>> >>>>>> paid work hours, then at best you have an employee
>> breaking the
>> >>>>> rules
>> >>>>>> of computer usage at the U of I. That does not make
>> the
>> >>>>> University or
>> >>>>>> the State liable for what they were working on. If
>> they are
>> >>>>> doing it on
>> >>>>>> their own time, they have every right to do so.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> So, does this suit have merit? Any official hosting of
>> the site,
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>>> employees being paid specifically to work on it by the
>> >>>>> University or the
>> >>>>>> State?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Paul
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Joseph Campbell wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Get a clue. Check the source.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 1/17/09 5:59 PM, "Paul Rumelhart"
>> <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I've never seen the nosuperwalmart site.
>> What are the facts?
>> >>>>> Was it an
>> >>>>>>>> official UI webpage? Was it the personal page
>> of a UI
>> >>>>> employee? In the
>> >>>>>>>> first case, they have a case. In the second,
>> the UI is acting
>> >>>>> more as
>> >>>>>>>> an ISP hosting personal content. I don't
>> know the law there,
>> >>>>> but I
>> >>>>>>>> doubt it's as cut-and-dried.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> What was the URL to the page?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Paul
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> g. crabtree wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I wish Mr. Glasebrook the very best in
>> this Endeavour. The U
>> >>>>> of I was
>> >>>>>>>>> completely remiss in allowing taxpayer
>> resources to be
>> >>>>> squandered promoting
>> >>>>>>>>> these causes and public officials are
>> negligent in their
>> >>>>> duties when not
>> >>>>>>>>> taking citizen complaints seriously.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> g
>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Tom Hansen"
>> <thansen at moscow.com>
>> >>>>>>>>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:00 AM
>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] He's Baaaaaaack
>> . . .
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Remember Dave Glasebrook?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> In case you don't, he's the
>> carrothead on the left . . .
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.tomandrodna.com/Photos/102907_Glasebrook.jpg
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, he (for lack of a more
>> appropriate pronoun) is back.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Courtesy of the Moscow-Pullman Daily
>> News.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Man files petition requesting action
>> from governor on
>> >>>>> allegations against
>> >>>>>>>>>> UI
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> A Moscow resident has taken legal
>> action against Idaho Gov.
>> >>>>> C.L. "Butch"
>> >>>>>>>>>> Otter, claiming the governor
>> "failed to faithfully enforce
>> >>>>> Idaho law."
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Dave Glasebrook filed a petition for a
>> writ of mandate
>> >>>>> against Otter in
>> >>>>>>>>>> Latah County District Court on Monday.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> The document states Otter
>> "breached public faith" and
>> >>>>> Glasebrook's civil
>> >>>>>>>>>> rights by failing to investigate
>> Glasebrook's claims that
>> >>>>> the University
>> >>>>>>>>>> of Idaho covered up illegal computer
>> use over the past
>> >>>>> several years.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook claims the UI allowed an
>> employee to run the Web
>> >>>>> site
>> >>>>>>>>>> NoSuperWalMart.com using UI computer
>> and phone systems. He
>> >>>>> also claims the
>> >>>>>>>>>> UI allowed people "to send e-mail
>> and post messages
>> >>>>> containing political,
>> >>>>>>>>>> defamatory, threatening or otherwise
>> prohibited activity."
>> >>>>> The claim is
>> >>>>>>>>>> primarily related to Internet postings
>> regarding the Moscow
>> >>>>> School
>> >>>>>>>>>> District's 2007 levy election.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook's petition also asserts
>> the UI violated open
>> >>>>> records law by not
>> >>>>>>>>>> releasing certain employee and student
>> e-mails he requested
>> >>>>> related to the
>> >>>>>>>>>> Web site and postings.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> The petition requests Otter order
>> Idaho Attorney General
>> >>>>> Lawrence Wasden
>> >>>>>>>>>> to subpoena information about
>> NoSuperWalmart.com, order the
>> >>>>> UI to release
>> >>>>>>>>>> e-mail and electronic records to
>> Glasebrook and assign an
>> >>>>> Idaho State
>> >>>>>>>>>> Police officer to retrieve material
>> from UI computers.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Glasebrook's final request is for
>> Otter to appear before
>> >>>>> the court
>> >>>>>>>>>> to "explain in detail why he does
>> not want to follow the
>> >>>>> laws he is sworn
>> >>>>>>>>>> to uphold and why he does not want to
>> uphold (Glasebrook's)
>> >>>>> civil rights
>> >>>>>>>>>> and liberties."
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Records attached to the petition show
>> Glasebrook has been
>> >>>>> pursuing action
>> >>>>>>>>>> against the UI since 2007. He has
>> requested assistance from
>> >>>>> Otter's
>> >>>>>>>>>> office, Idaho State Supreme Court
>> Chief Justice Daniel
>> >>>>> Eismann, Latah
>> >>>>>>>>>> County Prosecuting Attorney Bill
>> Thompson, Moscow
>> >>>>> Prosecuting Attorney Rod
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hall and former UI President Tim
>> White.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Now, where did I put those public
>> records requests?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Great! Here they are.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Stay tuned, Moscow. More to follow . .
>> .
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>> >>>>>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> "For a lapsed Lutheran born-again
>> Buddhist pan-Humanist
>> >>>>> Universalist
>> >>>>>>>>>> Unitarian Wiccan Agnostic like myself
>> there's really no
>> >>>>> reason ever to go
>> >>>>>>>>>> to work."
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> - Roy Zimmerman
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
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>> Internet.
>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.fsr.com/
>> >>>>>>>>>>
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>> with m
>> >>>>> ail. S
>> >>>>> ee how it works.
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>> >>
>> >
>> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>> >>>> =======================================================
>> >>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>>> http://www.fsr.net
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> 3D======================= >>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> ======================================================= List
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